NOM

So below is a link to an LDS Church News article about a talk the President of BYU-I and beneficiary of typical LDS leadership nepotism Henry J. Eyring gave on “How to evaluate doubts about the Church”. I find this so incredibly toxic, in that listeners are literally told if they think something is wrong with the Church there is someone wrong with them:

https://www.ldschurchnews.com/living-fa ... ring-48018

President Eyring invited anyone battling doubts about the Church to try a spiritual experiment. “Assume that the Church is true, notwithstanding the human frailties of its members and leaders. Then look for at least one way in which you are not being true to the teachings of the Church.”

“Whenever I am tempted to doubt the Church or any of its leaders, past or present, I need only to reevaluate my own spiritual state,” President Eyring said. “I ask myself the question, ‘Am I true?’”

In order for a statement to be true, all parts of must be true. One part of falseness makes the whole statement false. By that standard, the answer to President Eyring’s question is always “No.”

Toxic, damaging, psychologically manipulative - this is disgusting. He begins by talking about how shaken he was when he discovered that scholarship had proven the Book of Abraham to be a fraud, and how his “secret weapon” GA dad simply asked him how the book makes him feel, and all was well because it makes him feel good and “what else do you need to know"? Porn makes a lot of guys feel really good - would President Eyring agree that is all they need to know?

The really ironic thing about this is he makes the statement that “in order for a statement to be true, all parts of it must be true”, and yet at the beginning of his talk discusses how scholarly research has invalidated the Book of Abraham - by his own freakin’ standard, the Book of Abraham can’t be true just because he has good feelings about it when the scholarly aspect of it has been discredited. All parts of the BOA are clearly not true, so...just sayin’.

This talk is a total and complete mindscrew. This isn’t mental gymnastics - it’s mental poison.

This is the truest form of gaslighting. "Nothing to see here- it's all YOUR fault."

Fuel for self hatred, depression, anxiety, and scrupulosity. No wonder the church has all those investments in big pharma...

This was also disturbing:

President Eyring said. “Pray for feelings of remorse, and for guidance in making things right. Having done that, pray for feelings of forgiveness.”

As this happens, “you can recognize not only the miracle of forgiveness, but also the power of the doctrines of the Church, through which forgiveness has come,” he said. “You can once again prove the truthfulness of the Church, notwithstanding the imperfections of its members.”


So not only do you not base your beliefs in any kind of verifiable facts (just feelings) if you don’t have good feelings you must be sinning in some area of your life and that’s the problem.

My head is swimming at how abusive this is. I mean really, this is the kind of behavior you see in an abusive relationship - if you think something is wrong with me, then something is wrong with you, and you need to feel bad.

That is really, really messed up. Next time I see am “Am I true?” meme on Facebook from this talk I may not be able to hold back.

This totally makes sense.

If you are feeling symptoms, the church has to convince you that YOU are continually sick so THEY can continually provide the cure.

That's the only way THEY stay relevant.

I'll share a personal experience here. At age 24, I was stressed out beyond my normal stress levels. I was working full time while going to school full time in a difficult program. I was a young newly wed. I was serving as the stake finance clerk which meant early Sunday morning stake meetings on top of processing reimbursements and reports. I was tapped out in time and energy. I felt miserable. I went to the Bishop and asked for advice and was answered with a slurry of questions. Are you reading your scriptures daily? Are you going to the temple on a regular basis. Are you doing this and that? Are you doing everything you can to show the Lord your commitment to him and the church so that you can be worthy of his blessings? I was flabbergasted. Here I was asking for advice on time management and life and the answer was to spend more time serving the church!

I quickly figured out that was not the answer and made better time management decisions. Life got better.

Oh wooooww!!! WTF did I just read? Oh that is some messed up stuff being fed to some really young adults at a really vulnerable time in their lives. I feel so bad for those kids.

Ya know, between asinine arguments like that and his stories about his best friends dying of terminal illnesses without any effort from him to give them a healing blessing, then try to turn that story into some miraculous thing...what kind of pathetic apostle of Christ is this guy?!

With all of these apologetic and mental gymnastic lessons being shoved down the throats of their TBM followers it just makes me more bitter against that corporation. But that's how cultist fundamentalist institutions operate and it's infuriating.

The COB's narrative is just a cornucopia of fallacies

Post hoc ergo propter hoc
Ad Homniem - Ignoratio Elenchi
Ad Ignorantum
Argumentum ad populum
Non Sequitur
etc.

It is really disgusting how the church continues to blame those with doubts in order to keep others from questioning the problems they come across.

I honestly can not believe in 2018 he would get up in front of college students and say this, and I can not believe the church thinks it is a good idea to promote this story. BYU Idaho deleted their Facebook post on this... the reactions were swift and brutal.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:05 am This was also disturbing:

President Eyring said. “Pray for feelings of remorse, and for guidance in making things right. Having done that, pray for feelings of forgiveness.”

As this happens, “you can recognize not only the miracle of forgiveness, but also the power of the doctrines of the Church, through which forgiveness has come,” he said. “You can once again prove the truthfulness of the Church, notwithstanding the imperfections of its members.”


So not only do you not base your beliefs in any kind of verifiable facts (just feelings) if you don’t have good feelings you must be sinning in some area of your life and that’s the problem.

Forgiveness now comes from the Church, instead of Christ? Wow, that's some disturbing "doctrine." The whole talk is intensely problematical.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:54 am I honestly can not believe in 2018 he would get up in front of college students and say this, and I can not believe the church thinks it is a good idea to promote this story. BYU Idaho deleted their Facebook post on this... the reactions were swift and brutal.

I wonder about this frequently. It’s like no peer review or editorial review happens. Someone important says something so it’s automatically amazing or revelatory or doctrine. Where is the assessing of its merit and the critical review? It’s only when external views and criticisms come in that they pull the post. We see this over and over. And I wonder if they pull it because they realize it’s toxic at that point or if they just don’t want to allow the opposing viewpoint or negative responses any room on their fb page.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:24 am It’s only when external views and criticisms come in that they pull the post. We see this over and over. And I wonder if they pull it because they realize it’s toxic at that point or if they just don’t want to allow the opposing viewpoint or negative responses any room on their fb page.

This gives us a powerful weapon to combat the most toxic content, though, because the Church is so scared of negative reactions. Keyboard warriors, assemble!

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:11 am I mean really, this is the kind of behavior you see in an abusive relationship - if you think something is wrong with me, then something is wrong with you, and you need to feel bad.

This sums it up really well. This type of logic kept me afraid to dig into my questions for a long time. But after my faith crisis peaked, it made me think the church was actually evil (now I tend to think it just has messed up elements). It might keep some people in, but if those people ever do change their beliefs, they will be PISSED at the way they were abusively manipulated. And rightly so.

A good sign: this article isn't faring well on the more progressive of the two "faithful" subreddits.

https://www.reddit.com/r/latterdaysaint ... about_the/

Either the sub has been taken over by heathens, or the faithful just didn't like what they heard.

“Whenever I am tempted to doubt the Church or any of its leaders, past or present, I need only to reevaluate my own spiritual state,” President Eyring said. “I ask myself the question, ‘Am I true?’”

As a matter of fact Henry, I am.
I don't have sex with 14 year old boys.
I don't have sex with my friend's husbands.
I don't commit bank fraud and swindle people out of their money.
I don't believe God hates blacks and gays.
I don't condone murder of innocent men, women, and children.
I don't believe in asking children questions about sex behind closed doors.
I had nothing to do with Sam's excommunication for stating above was wrong and standing up for children.
I'm true to my husband and family, the kids i work with, my co workers, and people in my community.


Henry, go to Hell. (and don't tell Joseph, Brigham, or any other false prophets I said hi.)

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:39 pm

“Whenever I am tempted to doubt the Church or any of its leaders, past or present, I need only to reevaluate my own spiritual state,” President Eyring said. “I ask myself the question, ‘Am I true?’”

As a matter of fact Henry, I am.
I don't have sex with 14 year old boys.
I don't have sex with my friend's husbands.
I don't commit bank fraud and swindle people out of their money.
I don't believe God hates blacks and gays.
I don't condone murder of innocent men, women, and children.
I don't believe in asking children questions about sex behind closed doors.
I had nothing to do with Sam's excommunication for stating above was wrong and standing up for children.
I'm true to my husband and family, the kids i work with, my co workers, and people in my community.


Henry, go to Hell. (and don't tell Joseph, Brigham, or any other false prophets I said hi.)

Damn SBMom! That was awesome!!!

Yeah, this was a head shaker!

I saw it posted earlier on MSP FB and looked at the cluster f rolling on the comments for the BYUI meme they posted of "Am I true?!!"

They shut it down.

Red Ryder, I am glad we didn't have this crazy $#!+ when we were there at Rick's. Or maybe they did, I really didn't go to as many devotionals as I should have. Only the dean mandated ones I had to write reports on.

DW and I had a good laugh about the whole thing.

MalcolmVillager wrote: ↑Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:30 pm Yeah, this was a head shaker!

I saw it posted earlier on MSP FB and looked at the cluster f rolling on the comments for the BYUI meme they posted of "Am I true?!!"

They shut it down.

Red Ryder, I am glad we didn't have this crazy $#!+ when we were there at Rick's. Or maybe they did, I really didn't go to as many devotionals as I should have. Only the dean mandated ones I had to write reports on.

DW and I had a good laugh about the whole thing.

I don't remember and I had to attend and report for a semester while on honor code probation for falling asleep at a dude's apartment. We had a movie night and a few other people (guys and girls) fell asleep and never went home. Multiple roommates called it in and we all ended up on probation. That included mandatory devotional attendance and a one page write up to be reviewed with the honor code "probation" officer.

Glad I never went back there. That place is crazy and cold!!

Ugh... Another overzealous zealot in need of a swift kick to the giblets...

What everyone else has said. Also, picking up pennies will never make a fortune. Find something more lucrative.