NOM

https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/258-ta ... m-kosnoff/

Just finished this episode and I would highly recommend. Wow. Tim Kosnoff talks about an angle of the Mormon church that I haven't seen clearly in all my diggings. His talk about the church's nearly unlimited resources for sinking challenging law firms is in line with my expectations about the church's fantastic wealth. A line that stuck out to me by Kosnoff (quoting/paraphrasing by memory here):

"I don't like to use the term "church" towards Mormonism. It doesn't act like a church, more like a criminal organization in protecting its self interests."

Fascinating and sobering at the same time.

I’m going to have to listen. Thanks for bringing this up.

What a painful listen.

One must have to stop by the cross roads before bothering to apply at Kirton McConkie.

How does an employee there live with themselves?

rockslider wrote: ↑Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:03 pm How does an employee there live with themselves?

They use laughter to push down those thoughts and emotions. Laughter all the way to the bank.

Holy Cow, I just listened to this podcast. It made me very sad and angry. The NPR story has a sound bite of church lawyer saying that he's only aware of a dozen or so random cases in the history of the church with no pattern of church obfuscation, even though Kosnoff himself has prosecuted 150 such cases against the church and claims it is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg. For those who haven't listened, he says he has worked on child abuse cases against a number of organizations, including the infamous Catholic church, but the LDS church is in a league of its own with a callousness and legal strategy that is more like a crime syndicate than a religion. Yikes.

This is very disturbing. I had no idea it was that bad as far as the tendrils of the church into legal and political realms. The general membership has no idea how much at risk their children are by being active members in that corporation! There is so little protection for them or even recourse if something does go wrong. With their hard work and donations, members fund the very organization that would potentially abuse them! I see even more need for more Sams to step up and take a stand. I think leaving the church is really the only answer, which is what that lawyer discloses right up front to his clients, that they will inevitably resign their membership when they learn all of the truth about the corporation. History cover up aside, the legal and corporate behaviors of the church is evidence enough to show this is the church of Jesus Christ by name only. Their lips may often speak his name but their practices and policies are far from him!

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:09 am This is very disturbing. I had no idea it was that bad as far as the tendrils of the church into legal and political realms. The general membership has no idea how much at risk their children are by being active members in that corporation! There is so little protection for them or even recourse if something does go wrong. With their hard work and donations, members fund the very organization that would potentially abuse them! I see even more need for more Sams to step up and take a stand. I think leaving the church is really the only answer, which is what that lawyer discloses right up front to his clients, that they will inevitably resign their membership when they learn all of the truth about the corporation. History cover up aside, the legal and corporate behaviors of the church is evidence enough to show this is the church of Jesus Christ by name only. Their lips may often speak his name but their practices and policies are far from him!

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:16 pm Holy Cow, I just listened to this podcast. It made me very sad and angry. The NPR story has a sound bite of church lawyer saying that he's only aware of a dozen or so random cases in the history of the church with no pattern of church obfuscation, even though Kosnoff himself has prosecuted 150 such cases against the church and claims it is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg. For those who haven't listened, he says he has worked on child abuse cases against a number of organizations, including the infamous Catholic church, but the LDS church is in a league of its own with a callousness and legal strategy that is more like a crime syndicate than a religion. Yikes.

I totally agree. The mystery to me is the intent of the brethren at the head of the church. I lean towards the idea that they are all in with the church and believe it's God's kingdom, and will hence do anything to protect it, for the higher good, even if its at the expense of the 1 (Jesus wouldn't like that). Ultimately, I think they're victims of the cult mentality, just like the average TBM, yet enjoy the benefit of being demi-gods.

Thanks for sharing. Truly disgusting. He called it a "Systemic program of protecting and shielding predators".

I work in law enforcement and through the years have witnessed multiple members caught up in sexual abuse crimes. I really hate to admit this, but it never occurred to me that the church was putting more support behind the perpetrator than the victim; but looking back, I see it now. Every time the offender had to appear in court, there was a church leader or representative there in attendance as support. I think because I was still seeing it through the church's perspective of supporting the members, I just didn't see it that they were not there for the victim.

I've kind of been "avoiding" listening to this one, thinking the Mormon Stories 'cast with Matt Long was enough.

Yes, It can be worse than what I already knew. Yikes is an understatement.

So much for rule of law in the morcor. Wow, that is disturbing. And the fact that it has gone on for so long, this situation hit my own family many years ago and the perpetrator was never prosecuted due to the priesthood connections and fear of repercussions. I now understand how that probably happened.

And they want to rule the world in a theocracy. Not . going . to . happen. Not ever. Thank the universe that this information is becoming public knowledge. The pendulum can't swing towards member safety soon enough.

After listening to most of the interview, my take-away was that the church really believes Bishops have the power to forgive anyone of anything, and apparently that has the highest value to top leadership. I wonder why. What are they hiding? Forgiving perpetrators has a higher value than the welfare of the general membership. So children are not safe in the church worldwide, but most especially, they are not safe in Utah, due to the church's influence on the legal system there.

Sobering. Disturbing.

I've been listening to the podcast and it's fascinating and frightening. 30 minutes in the idea comes up that the church is so aggressive in it's defense against litigation is because it is legally vulnerable because of its standing as a "Corporation Sole." With much power comes much vulnerability. I've got to listen to the rest of it, but so far...... Would it be going too far to say the Church wants (ultimately) to be legally regarded as god?

deacon blues wrote: ↑Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:26 am I've been listening to the podcast and it's fascinating and frightening. 30 minutes in the idea comes up that the church is so aggressive in it's defense against litigation is because it is legally vulnerable because of its standing as a "Corporation Sole." With much power comes much vulnerability. I've got to listen to the rest of it, but so far...... Would it be going too far to say the Church wants (ultimately) to be legally regarded as god?

No.