NOM

If you’ve read my posts you know I’m faking for the family. I have one DD who is super NOM or faking for good reasons right now. The teenage DD and I were alone last night and her lack of belief came spilling out. Initially I think she was a little stressed about telling me even though she thought I was NOM. When I said I don’t believe tell me what you’re thinking it was floodgates and relief. Boy was she honest about all things Mormon. It was eye opening. Half her class at church doesn’t believe but they’re all faking it or being forced into attendance.

The big take away for me? I quit believing due to evidence. I didn’t like stuff for years and I questioned things and was never “molly”. But I toed the line, paid the tithing, held the callings, beat myself up with guilt and duty and I told myself it was true I just needed to do better. It was the history and lies that got me out....mentally anyway.

These youth? They just don’t believe. Logic. Reason. They evaluate the church on what they see and experience and they find it lacking. Maybe it’s because the world is so small for them and they have access to so much information and alternate ideas/philosophies/whatever but she knew almost nothing about the history but knows the church is false.

I think this really will be the church’s downfall. I kept waiting for a smoking gun or crisis that would make the church irrelevant. But now I wonder if it’s going to be these young people who just don’t believe and won’t come back when they’re adults.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:50 am Half her class at church doesn’t believe but they’re all faking it or being forced into attendance.

I kept waiting for a smoking gun or crisis that would make the church irrelevant. But now I wonder if it’s going to be these young people who just don’t believe and won’t come back when they’re adults.

Interesting... Thanks for sharing. Can only imagine that membership turnover will compound for folks who have issues with the modern church and then discover the rabbit hole. My opinion is that when you venture into the rabbit hole and go deep, your faith will never be the same, if it even remains at all. Interesting to see how membership demographics change over the next decade...

About a year and a half ago my dad said - "Son! I don't know why you can't have faith! I mean I've looked into everything and I just don't see why you have issue with the church!" I responded "If that's your opinion of the issues then you haven't looked at all the issues dude." Back to today, he's dove into the issues and listened to a lot of podcasts, and now he's in a faith crisis and is trying to fit the square peg into the round hole.

Congratulations!

That's got to feel really good having an open and honest conversation.

I think you summarized the youth's thoughts today. Bad product in an ever quickly changing world.

When I was a kid in the 80's - 90's the church was only 30 years behind the times. With technology, caffeine, high speed internet, and the Kardashians, the rate of acceleration in the world is outpacing the Church's 30 year lag! This means that the church is no longer 30 years behind the times, but rather 50 years and still dragging a boat anchor!

Or another way to look at it is the average age of the Q15 is 80 something. That puts an age gap between the leadership and youth of 60 -70 years!

Sure they think Grandpa is cute and such, but he ain't got a clue what it's like to be a teenager in 2018!

Sorry but the Face to Face meetings (which I believe were strategy efforts to build a relationship and connection with the leadership) just aren't working either. Why? Because the kids aren't getting straight answers.

One more thing on a personal level.

Your DD will now consider you an ally in any "battles" with her dad. This may put you in a couple of awkward struggles with your husband.

You might consider having a discussion with DD about this dynamic and explain that while you have her back, you may have to still be political about it which might come across as bit having her back.

I hope that makes sense. Mixed faith marriages are a tough balancing act. You can't alienate your spouse at the expense of your kids and vice versa.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:04 am One more thing on a personal level.

Your DD will now consider you an ally in any "battles" with her dad. This may put you in a couple of awkward struggles with your husband.

You might consider having a discussion with DD about this dynamic and explain that while you have her back, you may have to still be political about it which might come across as bit having her back.

I hope that makes sense. Mixed faith marriages are a tough balancing act. You can't alienate your spouse at the expense of your kids and vice versa.

We had an interesting talk about DH. She said that “dad likes the church telling him what to do and think, it makes things safe”. Wow. DH is a TBM who never challenges anything, never reads anything - not even his scriptures, doesn’t do family scripture study etc but if you say anything about the church he perceives as negative he goes in full defense mode. He didn’t speak to me for three days when I said that there isn’t equality in the church. Eek. So yea I warned her that I’ll support her and run interference with her dad but we need to tread lightly. Also in the community we live in she has to be careful or a) shunning or b) love bombing.

*edited for clarity

Arcturus wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 10:14 am

Anon70 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:50 am Half her class at church doesn’t believe but they’re all faking it or being forced into attendance.

I kept waiting for a smoking gun or crisis that would make the church irrelevant. But now I wonder if it’s going to be these young people who just don’t believe and won’t come back when they’re adults.

Interesting... Thanks for sharing. Can only imagine that membership turnover will compound for folks who have issues with the modern church and then discover the rabbit hole. My opinion is that when you venture into the rabbit hole and go deep, your faith will never be the same, if it even remains at all. Interesting to see how membership demographics change over the next decade...

About a year and a half ago my dad said - "Son! I don't know why you can't have faith! I mean I've looked into everything and I just don't see why you have issue with the church!" I responded "If that's your opinion of the issues then you haven't looked at all the issues dude." Back to today, he's dove into the issues and listened to a lot of podcasts, and now he's in a faith crisis and is trying to fit the square peg into the round hole.

Most of the people that tell me they know everything typically know nothing or only what the church has told them. Hopefully your dad gets through ok.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:01 am That's got to feel really good having an open and honest conversation.

Or another way to look at it is the average age of the Q15 is 80 something. That puts an age gap between the leadership and youth of 60 -70 years!

Sure they think Grandpa is cute and such, but he ain't got a clue what it's like to be a teenager in 2018!

Sorry but the Face to Face meetings (which I believe were strategy efforts to build a relationship and connection with the leadership) just aren't working either. Why? Because the kids aren't getting straight answers.

Yes! And she seemed really relieved that she could be totally honest.

They’re so less willing to put up with the poor logic and reasoning. And the repetition. And the constant push to get married. There are so many options and alternatives for these kids. Partly it embarrassed me that I went along for so long and these youngins figured it out so early. But mostly I’m grateful and I’m down to one more kid to fake for and I’m outta here. It’s closer than I thought!!!

I grew up in a family with a good, but critical father, and a kind and loving mom. I knew I could tell my Mom anything and she would listen, but there was a lot I would never tell my dad. My shelf broke about 5 years after my Mom died. I wish she had been there to listen when my shelf broke. It might have helped me with the adjustments to a new reality. It sounds like your the kind of Mom I had. That's really cool.

P.S. I should add that my dad mellowed as he grew older.