NOM

Here it is, my shelf officially breaks for good starting at about 1:45. I was in this meeting. Listen to how the audience giggles like laugh track when Raspand is rude to someone who is clearly nervous and then again when Ballard steps up. This brings up a bunch of really raw feelings. The leader worship i witnessed during this event was one of the most rancid things I have seen and these two apostles gobbled it up. I still can't put my finger on why this bugged me so much, but it was sickening to listen to some of it again.

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/index.php?t ... hoenix.mp3

Ballard's story about sending the questioner off to read the BOM is getting tiresome to listen to. It's all he's got.

Rasband's comment that 5 of his friends calling and asking him if he was talking about them in his conference talk about falling away was enlightening.

Mine was already on the floor in pieces swept up. And burned in the backyard at that point but it was certainly blood boiling.

It is so obvious once you have seen the end of The Sixth Sense who really is dead. For the believers it just doesn't click.

“Google territory” is on the “devils side” - dontcya know?
- The Wandering Octogenarian

Well of course the answer is simple. If you stay out of Google territory and read only the Standard Works you will not be deceived by satan. All the questions have been answered in the topical discussions, why would you need to go into google territory.

He actually says "the church is transparent." What a load.

Why do I do this to myself? This is really bothersome to me. Ballard stood there and lied to that congregation, knowing full well he was lying. That church is the very antithesis of "transparent," and Ballard sees examples of it every day. But he stands there and states "The church is transparent."

Maybe he's been hearing the same crap come out of his own mouth for so long he actually believes it.

Whited sepulchres man, whited sepulchres.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:50 pm Ballard's story about sending the questioner off to read the BOM is getting tiresome to listen to. It's all he's got.

Rasband's comment that 5 of his friends calling and asking him if he was talking about them in his conference talk about falling away was enlightening.

5 friends of an apostle are apostates? This seems to confirm the view that lots of people are leaving. I’d assume he’d only surround himself with TBMs.

Slavereeno, not sure if you've seen this already but if you want some background:

Background

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:02 pm Slavereeno, not sure if you've seen this already but if you want some background:

Background

Why do I feel like I'm in a Lifetime movie?

"Give the Lord equal time?"

Don't they realize that those who have faced their faith crisis head-on have given triple+ time to understand? To try to keep their faith? Why are we still "deceived?" Just another way to make you feel less-than in this church. Something is wrong with ME when the holy ghost does not tell ME it's all true. My heart must be in the wrong place, blah blah blah.

Why not give the answers for the sake of those who did give time and study, with no results?

“When you go to the devil’s side and start getting information on blogs...and neglect the scriptures... you’re going to lose your membership in the kingdom of god.” Ballard

What a steaming pile of s*** (the statement, that is). I generally like to give the brethren the benefit of the doubt because I think they have tough jobs (even though I’ve walked away from the church) but hearing stuff like this suggests there’s some complicity on their part. When I hear things like this it gives me assurance I’ve made the right decision.

Thanks for sharing.

This is what I heard from Ballard.

1) Yes there is an issue.

2) No. We don't know why.

3) I would like to control your access to critical information.

4) I would like you to just stay within church approved resources (scriptures) even though they don't answer your specific questions.

5) If that doesn't work and you lose your faith, it is your fault for not trying hard enough and following what I tell you to do.

If this answer was given to a JW who was questioning his/her faith, they would stay a JW. This response has nothing to do with the pursuit of truth.

I also love the advice of reading the BOM.

If someone actually studies the BOM, this is a fast train out of the church. I studied it cover to cover 7 times in the first 4 years of waking up.

It teaches a false plan of salvation which can't be true at the same time that what is taught in SS today is true.

It teaches a literal hell for everyone except those who accept christ and endure to the end.

Mosiah 16:10 Even this mortal shall put on immortality, (Resurrection) and this corruption shall put on incorruption, and shall be brought to stand before the bar of God, to be judged of him according to their works whether they be good or whether they be evil— (the judgement)

11 If they be good, to the resurrection of endless life and happiness; and if they be evil, to the resurrection of endless damnation, being delivered up to the devil, who hath subjected them, which is damnation—

Good work to endless life and happiness.

Evil works to endless damnation, delivered to the devil.

In SS today they teach that murderers and rapists are ultimately released from Satan and the spirit prison at the resurrection and delivered to a state of glory outside the grasps of the devil in the telestial kingdom. Even the holy ghost is going to be able to be in their presence in the telestial kingdom.

Hmmmmmm.

How again can the BOM be true, if it teaches a false plan of salvation????

Translation in RED.

hiding in plain sight wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:26 am This is what I heard from Ballard.

1) Yes there is an issue. "There are actually hundreds of them. But we don't talk about fight club. Shhhh. Now back to the salt mines...."

2) No. We don't know why. "Actually, we do know why. But the power, control, and money are nice. Bow your head and say yes. Now back to the salt mines...."

3) I would like to control your access to critical information. "You think too much. Remember, the mind is a terrible thing. We must hunt it down and kill it before it hurts someone. Now back to the salt mines...."

4) I would like you to just stay within church approved resources (scriptures) even though they don't answer your specific questions. "There IS one answer for everything. The problem is that if we ever actually gave it to you, you'd stop giving us money and letting us control you. Now back to the salt mines...."

5) If that doesn't work and you lose your faith, it is your fault for not trying hard enough and following what I tell you to do. "Here's your bill. Pay up sucka. Now back to the salt mines...."

If this answer was given to a JW who was questioning his/her faith, they would stay a JW. This response has nothing to do with the pursuit of truth.

Wow this all happened about 2 months before I found and started lurking here on NOM.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:02 pm Slavereeno, not sure if you've seen this already but if you want some background:

Background

Wow, my brain just exploded (again). Its interesting to see this from a different perspective. At the time my head was spinning and relationship with DW was very strained, because I had come out as non-believing to her. Many of the members in my ward, whom I spoke with afterwards were saying that AZFlyer's question was inappropriate and that it was anti-mormon. While I wasn't at this time aware Joseph Smith had taken teen brides or other men's wifes, it wasn't those factoids that disturbed me. It really was the feeling I got when the apostles responded. As a crumbling TBM I felt they were insincere, full of false bravado and dismissive. I sensed NO humility, truth or courage from the apostles. Yet I was overcome by the courage of AZFlyer. Within a week after this visit I would be reading the CESLetter.

slavereeno wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:25 am Wow this all happened about 2 months before I found and started lurking here on NOM.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:02 pm Slavereeno, not sure if you've seen this already but if you want some background:

Background

Wow, my brain just exploded (again). Its interesting to see this from a different perspective. At the time my head was spinning and relationship with DW was very strained, because I had come out as non-believing to her. Many of the members in my ward, whom I spoke with afterwards were saying that AZFlyer's question was inappropriate and that it was anti-mormon. While I wasn't at this time aware Joseph Smith had taken teen brides or other men's wifes, it wasn't those factoids that disturbed me. It really was the feeling I got when the apostles responded. As a crumbling TBM I felt they were insincere, full of false bravado and dismissive. I sensed NO humility, truth or courage from the apostles. Yet I was overcome by the courage of AZFlyer. Within a week after this visit I would be reading the CESLetter.

This is an amazing story. Now you and AZFlyer need to go have a soft drink together and become life long friends.

It's crazy that AZFlyer went into that humbly, wanting a good answer to a real question. He wasn't trying to rock the boat, just represent the truth he sees. I think the last thing he was trying to do there was break your shelf. I shouldn't speak for him though...

Linked wrote:

slavereeno wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:25 am Wow this all happened about 2 months before I found and started lurking here on NOM.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:02 pm Slavereeno, not sure if you've seen this already but if you want some background:

Background

Wow, my brain just exploded (again). Its interesting to see this from a different perspective. At the time my head was spinning and relationship with DW was very strained, because I had come out as non-believing to her. Many of the members in my ward, whom I spoke with afterwards were saying that AZFlyer's question was inappropriate and that it was anti-mormon. While I wasn't at this time aware Joseph Smith had taken teen brides or other men's wifes, it wasn't those factoids that disturbed me. It really was the feeling I got when the apostles responded. As a crumbling TBM I felt they were insincere, full of false bravado and dismissive. I sensed NO humility, truth or courage from the apostles. Yet I was overcome by the courage of AZFlyer. Within a week after this visit I would be reading the CESLetter.

This is an amazing story. Now you and AZFlyer need to go have a soft drink together and become life long friends.

It's crazy that AZFlyer went into that humbly, wanting a good answer to a real question. He wasn't trying to rock the boat, just represent the truth he sees. I think the last thing he was trying to do there was break your shelf. I shouldn't speak for him though...

I love NOM collision stories. Sounds like you guys might end up eating burritos together sometime.

Slavereeno, never fear, a new and spectacular approach was revealed in the most recent FAIR Mormon Conference...

Say hello to the "Black Box". No more need for breaking shelves--the box is reinforced with false promise!

Lessons from a black box

No Latter-day Saint is immune from occasionally questioning their faith or feeling doubts. Elder Pearson said there have been times in his own life when he asked questions about “certain historical issues” or abstract doctrinal questions. But he always tried to focus on the personal revelations he had received from the Holy Ghost on the “questions that matter most.”

He keeps a black box into which he puts issues, concerns, and questions that he can’t resolve. Occasionally he opens the box and thinks about its contents.

“Over time, as I have had more life experience; studied, pondered, and prayed more about the doctrines and principles contained in the restored gospel; listened and learned from apostles and prophets, from those who know, I have come to know and experience more about personal revelation and the gift of the Holy Ghost and come to know Heavenly Father and the Savior more intimately.”

He still has the black box.

“Most all of the contents have been resolved. Some I see very differently now, and others just don’t seem to matter anymore. But still, others are still there. But they don’t prevent me from moving forward with faith.”

achilles wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:59 pm Slavereeno, never fear, a new and spectacular approach was revealed in the most recent FAIR Mormon Conference...

Say hello to the "Black Box". No more need for breaking shelves--the box is reinforced with false promise!

Lessons from a black box

No Latter-day Saint is immune from occasionally questioning their faith or feeling doubts. Elder Pearson said there have been times in his own life when he asked questions about “certain historical issues” or abstract doctrinal questions. But he always tried to focus on the personal revelations he had received from the Holy Ghost on the “questions that matter most.”

He keeps a black box into which he puts issues, concerns, and questions that he can’t resolve. Occasionally he opens the box and thinks about its contents.

“Over time, as I have had more life experience; studied, pondered, and prayed more about the doctrines and principles contained in the restored gospel; listened and learned from apostles and prophets, from those who know, I have come to know and experience more about personal revelation and the gift of the Holy Ghost and come to know Heavenly Father and the Savior more intimately.”

He still has the black box.

“Most all of the contents have been resolved. Some I see very differently now, and others just don’t seem to matter anymore. But still, others are still there. But they don’t prevent me from moving forward with faith.”

Oh for crying out loud, this black box is the same thing as a shelf except that you cant see the stuff on it. It obscures stuff that doesn't support your world view. I posted in another thread about a Bishop named Matt Jones who did an interview on Mormon Matters, this is classic burying you head in the sand.

slavereeno wrote: ↑Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:10 pm Oh for crying out loud, this black box is the same thing as a shelf except that you cant see the stuff on it. It obscures stuff that doesn't support your world view. I posted in another thread about a Bishop named Matt Jones who did an interview on Mormon Matters, this is classic burying you head in the sand.

But...the box is different! It's a cube rather than a flat plank. It'll hold those pesky doubts inside as long as you need!