Was the LDS church used as a template for this

[slavereeno]

What the heck, I just looked at the questions here and was left wondering if this guy specifically targeted Mormonism? If I think of the hardcore TBMs in my life I had to answer yes to everything on the "unsafe" list

https://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement
Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
The group/leader is always right.
The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.

Ten warning signs regarding people involved in/with a potentially unsafe group/leader.

Extreme obsessiveness regarding the group/leader resulting in the exclusion of almost every practical consideration.
Individual identity, the group, the leader and/or God as distinct and separate categories of existence become increasingly blurred. Instead, in the follower's mind these identities become substantially and increasingly fused--as that person's involvement with the group/leader continues and deepens.
Whenever the group/leader is criticized or questioned it is characterized as "persecution".
Uncharacteristically stilted and seemingly programmed conversation and mannerisms, cloning of the group/leader in personal behavior.
Dependency upon the group/leader for problem solving, solutions, and definitions without meaningful reflective thought. A seeming inability to think independently or analyze situations without group/leader involvement.
Hyperactivity centered on the group/leader agenda, which seems to supercede any personal goals or individual interests.
A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.
Increasing isolation from family and old friends unless they demonstrate an interest in the group/leader.
Anything the group/leader does can be justified no matter how harsh or harmful.
Former followers are at best-considered negative or worse evil and under bad influences. They can not be trusted and personal contact is avoided.

[oliblish]

I accidentally left the site below displayed on my computer at home and my TBM wife noticed it. She was pretty upset and I had to apologize (it really was unintentional.)

Like the site in the OP, it is difficult to read it without thinking about the church.

It appears the site is no longer up but I was able to look it up on archive.org:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170521115 ... -in-a-cult

Warning Signs that You are in a Cult

If you suspect the group you are in is harmful, but are not sure, ask yourself these questions:

do they claim to have a special corner on the truth, something no other groups has?
are you told to not question what is being taught, as the leadership are godly, honest, have divine authority and you must trust them?
are you discouraged from asking questions as to why members have left, and expected to accept the reasons the group leadership gives you?
do they put down other churches, groups, etc, while pointing out their faults and errors to build themselves up? do they use peoples faults and sins as examples of what to do and what not to do?
are you made to feel your failures, as though your performance is not up to par to their righteous standards?
do they recommend for you to be around their people, expecting you to attend all group activities? if you do not, are you are questioned about your spirituality or dedication?
do they stop you from reading anything negative about themselves?
do they call those who fall away enemies, dogs, or cancer, even using examples from the Bible or other such materials?
do they place and emphasis on evil and the devil, declaring that the world outside is a threat to the group?
do they defend themselves in every area?
do they give importance to a spiritual goal, such as enlightenment, godliness, salvation, that has no real tangible way of being measured?
do they operate in humility, or seem arrogant, and make demands on you to obey, using such statements such as “real believers obey without question or if you really were a devoted follower you would do such and such"?

Be aware of:

an instant bonding or friendship without even knowing you
being told you have a special calling or potential and that if you join you will move further ahead; flattery is used often in cults
when you ask questions about the history of the group, the answers are vague or avoided altogether
feeling that something is being hidden from you

Cults will always divide the family unit instead of bringing them together. They will make you choose between God and their church. They use scriptures such as: "Jesus came to bring a sword, not peace" or "one must give up brothers, sisters, wife, and house for the kingdom and be a true follower". Children often become the most hurt because of strict rules enforced on them. They lose their childhood and are deeply affected, being unable to adjust later on in life. Religious systems that are not balanced can be socially and psychologically disastrous for innocent children.

[MoPag]

What the heck, I just looked at the questions here and was left wondering if this guy specifically targeted Mormonism? If I think of the hardcore TBMs in my life I had to answer yes to everything on the "unsafe" list

https://culteducation.com/warningsigns.html

Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader.

A dramatic loss of spontaneity and sense of humor.

Like no more light mindedness or loud laughter? Even as a TBM I knew I was failing miserably at that one!!

But wow. Both of those pretty much nailed what it's like to be LDS. I don't think we are as bad as say the FLDS or the Kingston clan. I mean, I see TBM debates on FB over stuff like immigration, gun control etc. So even when the church says SOME things there is still a sizable amount TBMs willing to at least debate it.

[græy]

I accidentally left the site below displayed on my computer at home and my TBM wife noticed it. She was pretty upset and I had to apologize (it really was unintentional.)

I have seen these lists before. I wish there was some way of bringing them up and/or discussing them and how they apply to the church with my wife, but I'm afraid she would see that as too much of a direct assault on the church itself.

I would really like to find these lists, or something similar, on a site more credible than "Cult Education", or "Mind Control Recovery"?

[jfro18]

I have seen these lists before. I wish there was some way of bringing them up and/or discussing them and how they apply to the church with my wife, but I'm afraid she would see that as too much of a direct assault on the church itself.

I would really like to find these lists, or something similar, on a site more credible than "Cult Education", or "Mind Control Recovery"?

I would be super, incredibly careful before you show a list like this to your wife. The *immediate* takeaway for a believing spouse is "YOU THINK THE CHURCH IS A CULT?!?!"

There was a graphic floating around that was the BITE model and it was framed as controlling groups and not cults, but even then I could not find a way that I could show that to my wife without her shutting down immediately.

Cognitive dissonance is one hell of a drug, and I don't think you can approach these types of lists until they're already well on the faith journey out. Just my opinion, of course, and if you do show your wife I'm curious how it goes... maybe it would give me the courage to bring up the bite model at some point.

[græy]

Cognitive dissonance is one hell of a drug, and I don't think you can approach these types of lists until they're already well on the faith journey out. Just my opinion, of course, and if you do show your wife I'm curious how it goes... maybe it would give me the courage to bring up the bite model at some point.

Yeah, I had also thought about the BITE model studies. But you're right. There is no way to breach these topics without offending an active TBM, and I'm not going to push that particular button with my wife for quite some time yet.

[jfro18]

Yeah, I had also thought about the BITE model studies. But you're right. There is no way to breach these topics without offending an active TBM, and I'm not going to push that particular button with my wife for quite some time yet.

I had a tab of it up on my computer and it was the BITE model graphic and it was aimed at Jehovah's Witnesses, so I thought I could do it and pin it on JWs for cover, but I know that since she knows how I feel about Mormonism that she would be quite aware of what I was doing.

Maybe someday I'll find a way to bring it up, but I feel like that's second or third level sharing material and so far she shuts down on the basic stuff. It's my dream to show her that and have her agree, but I am pretty sure it will always be nothing more than a dream.

[Reuben]

There are some serious limitations to lists of cult criteria.

1. There's little work on correlating them with individual outcomes, if any. The only thing you can do with them at present is use them as an introspection tool. Declaring that a religion is "probably bad for most people" is very far off.

2. They tend to be true/false in nature, which tends to push scores (if you were to tally "true" answers) toward extremes. A 0-4 scale would be much better.

3. There are no established baselines.

4. The word "cult" is ambiguous. The fact that the lists aren't using definitions rigorously means they're probably not constructed rigorously.

5. Because they give statements of traits, they can't be used reliably to score a religion. Confirmation bias will push respondents toward extremes. Carefully constructed (and statistically analyzed) questionnaires would work much better.

6. The experience of belonging to a worldwide religion tends to vary greatly by person and location. In Mormonism, for example, your gender, family and ward mostly determine how much and in what ways the church tries to influence you.

[wtfluff]

...
5. Because they give statements of traits, they can't be used reliably to score a religion. Confirmation bias will push respondents toward extremes. Carefully constructed (and statistically analyzed) questionnaires would work much better.
...

Yeah, as I read through some of these lists, I wonder at times: Wait, are they referring to religion, or my employer?

(I'm KIDDING boss... )

[Reuben]

...
5. Because they give statements of traits, they can't be used reliably to score a religion. Confirmation bias will push respondents toward extremes. Carefully constructed (and statistically analyzed) questionnaires would work much better.
...

Yeah, as I read through some of these lists, I wonder at times: Wait, are they referring to religion, or my employer?

(I'm KIDDING boss... )

I actually tried making a better scale out of these and scoring my workplace, my home, and the church. My workplace came out least culty, with my home almost tied with it. But I've definitely had more authoritarian employers. And I think I once narrowly escaped a pretty bad one. The phrase "balls to the wall" really shouldn't come up in an interview for a software development job.

The church... well...

My biggest problem was that it was so variable. Some wards are a lot less authoritarian and close-minded than others. Also, the church doesn't prescribe much formal punishment for unbelief, but instead tries to make members afraid of unbelief and denigrates unbelievers. Members are free to come up with their own punishments, which depend on a lot of factors.

One idea I had was to come up with scenarios such as "single convert in Seattle who drifts away after not being able to quit smoking" and "ideal pioneer-stock member in Provo who has faith crisis at 40." These two people would experience leaving very, very differently.

I can say that for me, the church is a controlling, bullying religion that my oldest daughter (lesbian/bi) and I would be much better off without. If it were like that for everyone, I might be happy to call it a cult, but I would want a more precise word.

[Arcturus]

Was looking for a list like this - thank you for sharing.

I've shared some of these unhealthy (cult) characteristics and how they mirror Mormonism with some family members who are pretty orthodox and extremely disappointed with us (DW and I) for stepping away from the church. It's insane how quickly they turn off and aren't willing to objectively consider the reality. I'd like to think that I wasn't that close-minded when I was a TBM, but who knows.

[blazerb]

I'd like to think that I wasn't that close-minded when I was a TBM, but who knows.

I know I was. When the c-word was said, I got very defensive. I could not look at this type of issue objectively until I mentally disengaged from the church.

I think there is wide variation in the church. I have been in stakes that were very culty. Others, like the one I grew up in, not so much. BYU was probably pretty bad, but I didn't notice since everyone around was involved.