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Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:34 pm
by moksha
A Mormon mother of four lost her temple recommend because she chooses to breastfeed at church. Last Tuesday, she went to her stake president so that he could also sign off on her recommend, but she says he brought up the breastfeeding issue, He quoted from the ‘For the Strength of Youth’ pamphlet, told her ‘it’s a modesty issue’ and blamed her for the men and boys having impure thoughts,” a recent Exponent II blog reported. “… When the sister insisted that ‘this isn’t my problem,’ he rebutted, ‘It is your problem. And if you do it again, we’re going to kick you out of the building’”
https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2018/07 ... rmon-land/
http://kutv.com/news/local/lds-mom-says ... -at-church
This makes sense.
Seeing a bare breast could potentially cause chaos in Sacrament Meeting by throwing the Elders in attendance into a frenzy. This would require the BYU police department to be sent in to cover the incident up.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:37 pm
by Red Ryder
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:52 pm
by Palerider
I thought plenty of women breast feed in public?!?
But with a light blanket thrown over their breast and shoulder...what's the problem with that??
ETA:
Ok, I just read the article and I see that the issue is that she is not covered while breastfeeding.
I have to say I kind of side with the church here.
Not so much because of the moral issue but for me it's kind of an intimacy thing. Then again, what missionary in a third world country hasn't happened upon this sort of thing once in awhile?
Was the TR jerked for this first offence? The SP could have made a reasonable request and given her time to think it over. Isn't there also a "mother's room" in most buildings? This just sounds like an over-reaction all the way around.
Why does everyone have to be such a big boob about it when these things happen?
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:10 pm
by Reuben
Some elders on my mission would call a naked nipple seen while a woman was breastfeeding "the one-eyed monster."
Beware the one-eyed monster, elder. Sing a hymn.
I'm sure all the effort we put into not thinking about bare breasts was ultimately helpful to us, and that learning to fear them never caused any of us any trouble.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:20 pm
by alas
Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:52 pm
I thought plenty of women breast feed in public?!?
But with a light blanket thrown over their breast and shoulder...what's the problem with that??
ETA:
Ok, I just read the article and I see that the issue is that she is not covered while breastfeeding.
I have to say I kind of side with the church here.
Not so much because of the moral issue but for me it's kind of an intimacy thing. Then again, what missionary in a third world country hasn't happened upon this sort of thing once in awhile?
Was the TR jerked for this first offence? The SP could have made a reasonable request and given her time to think it over. Isn't there also a "mother's room" in most buildings? This just sounds like an over-reaction all the way around.
Some babies refuse to eat with a blanket over them. They jerk it off. And maybe you should try eating with a blanket over your head to understand why the babies are grabbing the blanket and jerking it off.
I was one of the women indoctrinated by this kind of garbage. I spent all of sacrament meeting sitting on a toilet for three months before I forced fussy slow eater onto a bottle so I didn’t raise eyebrows in sacrament meeting. See, we lived on the economy, unaccompanied tour, so the US government was not helping and we were supper poor, in Berlin in 1973. We traveled one hour and a half by subway to get to sacrament meeting. By then, my premature baby was hungry again. So, I went to the restroom, because there was no mother’s lounge or anything for nursing. With a blanket over her, she just cried. THIS is why women need to be allowed to feed their child when ever, however, and wherever, exposing whatever gets exposed, without idiotic males gawking at them and thinking it is the WOMAN’s problem that she needs to feed her child. It isn’t about men and their comfort. It is about feeding a baby the way the baby is comfortable!
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:50 pm
by Palerider
alas wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:20 pm
Some babies refuse to eat with a blanket over them. They jerk it off. And maybe you should try eating with a blanket over your head to understand why the babies are grabbing the blanket and jerking it off.
I was one of the women indoctrinated by this kind of garbage. I spent all of sacrament meeting sitting on a toilet for three months before I forced fussy slow eater onto a bottle so I didn’t raise eyebrows in sacrament meeting. See, we lived on the economy, unaccompanied tour, so the US government was not helping and we were supper poor, in Berlin in 1973. We traveled one hour and a half by subway to get to sacrament meeting. By then, my premature baby was hungry again. So, I went to the restroom, because there was no mother’s lounge or anything for nursing. With a blanket over her, she just cried. THIS is why women need to be allowed to feed their child when ever, however, and wherever, exposing whatever gets exposed, without idiotic males gawking at them and thinking it is the WOMAN’s problem that she needs to feed her child. It isn’t about men and their comfort. It is about feeding a baby the way the baby is comfortable!
I can see that a baby being uncomfortable under a blanket could present a challenge. We had four of them and none of them had a problem with it. And believe me, my wife would have said so if they had.
Seems to me if the church is that determined to ensure modesty they should backfit every Chapel with a mother's lounge that has the sacrament meeting piped into it. Heaven knows they have the money. Either put up or shut up and let the mothers feed their babies the best way for them.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:11 pm
by Dravin
she claims the stake president told her husband that he had to control his wife
Because a women making a conscious decision is like a fussy toddler that needs an adult to take control of the situation. Don't let this mislead you or anything though, women are totally seen as equal to men in Mormondom.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:35 pm
by wtfluff
Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:52 pmWas the TR jerked for this first offence?
Yes, her TR was yanked because of this. As Dravin mentioned, "leadership" also told her husband to "control his wife" and because the husband sided with his wife, his golden ticket was yanked too.
Hopefully these people are smart enough to withdraw their support of such an idiotic organization after this.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:54 pm
by mooseman
"She added that the mother’s room is through a bathroom and isolates her from the social aspect of being at church. Plus, she said she can’t hear the services well from the mother’s room and has asked for it to be rewired."
Sounds like the mothers room removes all the "beneifts" of going. Can't particiapte, can interact, cant hear. She may as well stay home......
I know many people whod feel shes making a.mountain out of a mole hill, or think that fixing the speakers is the answer. But her reaction isnt the problem. The speakers arent the problem. Those that have that attitude really over looks the actual issue, which the rest of us see so clearly. Sadly, my mom would be one of them.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:57 pm
by Sheamus Moore
Have Deacons hand them out at the door. Problem solved.
- 5E90C326-80E6-4B07-8CFC-915061032C2E.jpeg (229.61 KiB) Viewed 22459 times
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:47 am
by Not Buying It
There is nothing sexy about breastfeeding. Any man who thinks there is something sexually arousing about it has a problem. And women shouldn’t have to cover up when breastfeeding because some men have a problem.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 7:31 am
by Corsair
Sheamus Moore wrote: ↑Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:57 pm
Have Deacons hand them out at the door. Problem solved.
"Breast-Feeding Tent Picture"
Sorry, Sheamus, the picture on the tent might still cause some of the deacons to engage in some tenting of their own. We need a tent that shows something like the outfits on "The Handmaid's Tale".
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:06 am
by Palerider
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:47 am
There is nothing sexy about breastfeeding. Any man who thinks there is something sexually arousing about it has a problem. And women shouldn’t have to cover up when breastfeeding because some men have a problem.
Wouldn't disagree with this at all.
As I mentioned before, for me it's more of an intimacy/privacy issue. When we are talking about the body and someone makes a statement about their "private parts" the breasts are included or covered (pardon the pun) by that phrase as being a part of the body not for public consumption.
I guess my question would be why does breastfeeding suddenly change that status?
What if it (breastfeeding) is a view that I don’t care to see such as public urination? Not that there is any comparison functionally between the two whatsoever, I get that. Don't get crazy here.
Some might say, "Well if you don't want to see it just don't look at it, dummy." I would answer that some things we see inadvertently and then we can't "unsee" them or eliminate the feeling that we have invaded someone's privacy. Again for me, it's a privacy issue.
Public breastfeeding isn't normative for society in the U.S. This isn't just an LDS church issue.
Could it become normative? Possibly. And I wouldn't be one to resist that change on the one hand, but I also respect the rights of an organization or individuals to not see it as preferrable.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:46 am
by MoPag
Palerider wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:06 am
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:47 am
There is nothing sexy about breastfeeding. Any man who thinks there is something sexually arousing about it has a problem. And women shouldn’t have to cover up when breastfeeding because some men have a problem.
Wouldn't disagree with this at all.
As I mentioned before,
for me [/b ]it's more of an intimacy/privacy issue.
This is not about you! You are not a nursing mother.
Palerider wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:06 am
What if it (breastfeeding) is a view that I don’t care to see such as public urination? Not that there is any comparison functionally between the two whatsoever, I get that. Don't get crazy here.
Again this isn't about what you want to see or don't want to see. Why should the world have to accommodate you?
Palerider wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:06 am
Some might say, "Well if you don't want to see it just don't look at it, dummy." I would answer that some things we see inadvertently and then we can't "unsee" them or eliminate the feeling that we have invaded someone's privacy. Again for me, it's a privacy issue.
And for a third time: This isn't about you and what you want and what makes you comfortable. What makes your needs more important than the needs of a nursing mother and her baby?
Palerider wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:06 am
Public breastfeeding isn't normative for society in the U.S. This isn't just an LDS church issue.
It should be normal and we are trying to make it normal.
Palerider wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:06 am
Could it become normative? Possibly. And I wouldn't be one to resist that change on the one hand, but I also respect the rights of an organization or individuals to not see it as preferrable.
That's nice that you wouldn't resist the change. I don't think that an organization or individual that treats women as objects and humiliates and threatens them as they are trying to feed their babies, deserves any respect.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:31 am
by Yobispo
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:47 am
There is nothing sexy about breastfeeding. Any man who thinks there is something sexually arousing about it has a problem. And women shouldn’t have to cover up when breastfeeding because some men have a problem.
I always thought my wife looked beautiful pregnant and nursing. Not in the lingerie kind of way, but it was pretty beautiful.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:18 am
by Hagoth
I would be more concerned that the child is four years old and the mother said she will continue to nurse as long as she wants. I'm not sure that's healthy, but what do I know? I just think it's interesting that one of the most common and natural acts in the world can cause such a stir.
The one thing that I do know is that there's nothing in the recommend questions about breast feeding, which means the SP is inventing his own rules.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:27 am
by Dravin
Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:18 am
The one thing that I do know is that there's nothing in the recommend questions about breast feeding, which means the SP is inventing his own rules.
It is a little crazy, a SP can demand anything based on a whim and if you don't comply or complain it isn't in the temple recommend questions? Well then, you aren't sustaining your local leaders which is in question 4 (IIRC) and he yanks your recommend based on that.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:53 am
by alas
Yobispo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:31 am
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:47 am
There is nothing sexy about breastfeeding. Any man who thinks there is something sexually arousing about it has a problem. And women shouldn’t have to cover up when breastfeeding because some men have a problem.
I always thought my wife looked beautiful pregnant and nursing. Not in the lingerie kind of way, but it was pretty beautiful.
Beautiful, but not sexy. There are hundreds of beautiful, classic paintings of Mary nursing the Christ child. So, sacred? I kind of think so. Saying women should not nurse in public is like saying one should not pray in public. That is sacred, often private in the same way that nursing can be private, as in intimate interaction between two people. It is loving interaction between baby and mother. (Which is another reason not to cover the baby. The baby needs to see his/her mother for bonding. It is a loving experience that baby needs. So, maybe it is like saying one should not hold hands with a spouse in public. (Gasp, PDA) Or, one should not eat in public. After all, that is all the baby is doing is eating.
These are much better comparisons that the ones being offered by ...um....men over 50 on some of the discussions I have seen.
Over on Exponent, men compared nursing to urinating in public, changing a babies diaper in public, farting in public. Yup, some of the men see feeding a baby like things that should be done in a restroom, shameful things that should be done in private. It is no wonder that for years women have been expected to nurse in the restroom.
I have a better idea. Let the men (and women) who have a problem with seeing it go sit in the restroom. They can take the sacrament in the restroom too. After all, they are the ones expecting babies to have no problem with eating lunch in the restroom. Or maybe they can just sit through sacrament meeting with a blanket over their heads.
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:13 pm
by MoPag
alas wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:53 am
Yobispo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:31 am
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:47 am
There is nothing sexy about breastfeeding. Any man who thinks there is something sexually arousing about it has a problem. And women shouldn’t have to cover up when breastfeeding because some men have a problem.
I always thought my wife looked beautiful pregnant and nursing. Not in the lingerie kind of way, but it was pretty beautiful.
Beautiful, but not sexy. There are hundreds of beautiful, classic paintings of Mary nursing the Christ child. So, sacred? I kind of think so. Saying women should not nurse in public is like saying one should not pray in public. That is sacred, often private in the same way that nursing can be private, as in intimate interaction between two people. It is loving interaction between baby and mother. (Which is another reason not to cover the baby. The baby needs to see his/her mother for bonding. It is a loving experience that baby needs. So, maybe it is like saying one should not hold hands with a spouse in public. (Gasp, PDA) Or, one should not eat in public. After all, that is all the baby is doing is eating.
I love this^^^
Here is neat collection of vintage pics of women "not covering up."
https://www.buzzfeed.com/southerndispos ... .clKa0ME4o
Re: Breasts in the News
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:49 pm
by Red Ryder
Love the Big Bird pic!
#25 comic was funny too!
