NOM

The following is by a poster name HappyJackWagon on another forum.

It seems to me that in life, society tends to praise the seeker, whether it be an investigative reporter digging for the truth, a student reading voraciously to understand a topic, or an attorney digging through case law. And it should be praised. People who doggedly seek additional knowledge and truth are generally viewed as honest and sincere. In the church people who seek are often viewed with suspicion and scorn as if they only seek knowledge because they lack faith.

Institutions are designed to protect themselves but are not worthy of faith. They need to be challenged by watchdogs. I think most people know and appreciate that. Whether it's a government, a company, a school, a church, whatever, truth is generally seen as more important than upholding a system or institution when it is wrong.

Great thoughts to ponderize.

Do you think the church is an institution that can withstand this kind of honest enquiry though? It's almost an existential issue for the Church capital C. Either the Book of Mormon is all true or it's all false. Either Joseph Smith was a prophet or.... what? The Church is demonstrably false and therefore has no reason to exist.

The Leaders of the Church have painted themselves into a corner on this one. That's why they fight so hard to keep honest enquiry from happening.

HappyJackWagon used to post on the old NOM board. I love reading his comments on the "other" board.

Patrick Mason seemed to identify and expand on this "seeker" label as if reminding everyone that "Hey remember, Joseph Smith was a seeker once! See what happened when he questioned?" He's clearly failed to reconcile it with living within the church cultural clusterfuctuations HappyJack mentions.

Personally I've found seeking leads one out of the church. I blame the product, senior management, and total institutional dishonesty?

Truth speaks for itself.

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:47 amWhether it's a government, a company, a school, a church, whatever, truth is generally seen as more important than upholding a system or institution when it is wrong.

I've only be doing touch and goes with this forum over the past few years, mainly due to being frustrated with the realization I, and four generations before me, were duped into believing the false narrative that is the church. I was on it a lot during the old days. . . . dropped out changed my avatar. . . rejoined. . . .walked away again. Mainly because at first I thought this might be a way of changing culture within the church, somehow, someway. Hence, New Order Mormons seemed to be a good place to hang, and not feel alone in my struggles.

I tell you this to mention Happy Jack Wagon. Several years ago he and I PM'd back and forth and he gave me some advice that carried my on my journey. I valued it then as I do now. It was about truth and how to deal with someone, some group, some organization that was failing miserably at truth. At the time I came across this quote by Aldous Huxley, “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.” I tried hard to ignore the facts, just like the church asked us to, but I could no longer sit on the stand weekly and live the hypocrisy of allowing those looking up at me believe I believed. Also I had discussions with Hans Mattsson, who confirmed my frustration with the lies to be accurate, and I owe he and Brigitta all the love I can throw their way for the courage they had and the life they now live.

I'm saddened today with the seemingly endless false statements coming from the government, from the LDS corporation, from the LDS church, and from it's leaders. Will the government ever change, it changes with its leaders, but the constitution remains solid. Will the church ever change? It can't, because unlike the constitution the BoM is a fictitious writing, and the Joseph Smith "story" has been shot to hell (no pun). The church leaders can't, because as has been mentioned before, they have painted themselves in a corner. They will accept the small growth, they will alway tout they are persecuted, they will always hold their heads in the bubble of their righteousness, and they will remain their worst enemy.