We Left
We Left
I posted a little rant on this Support thread a while ago. Thank you to everyone who gave me advice. My wife and I decided to take a break from the church about a month ago - letting leadership know (released from callings, etc.) and now telling close friends and family. It was really hard to go through with, but it feels so relieving and refreshing to be on the other side. And it's only been 1 month!
Here's the letter I shared with my family, if anyone would like to draw from it for their own journey and future "discussions." Thanks again everyone for the advice!
Here's the letter I shared with my family, if anyone would like to draw from it for their own journey and future "discussions." Thanks again everyone for the advice!
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin
D Brisbin
Re: We Left
The Letter:
Hope this email finds everyone well, although admittedly, I know you may not find yourselves feeling well after further reading. I’m sure most of you know at this point, so we felt it would be best to be open and let you all know where we are with the church.
One of my colleagues is a deeply committed evangelical... and our conversations quickly moved to religious discussion/debate over time... Ultimately, he brought questions to me that I had never experienced before, so it took me online to FAIR Mormon to look for good responses to resolve his concerns with the church. However, when I went online I was introduced to a completely new information environment regarding the intricacies and nuances of Mormon history that I had never been aware of. In fact, I believe this information environment wasn’t even in existence during my mission.
Anyways, this led to a deep and intensive investigation of all the issues for over a year. It was painful, at least speaking for myself. I experienced a period of depression that was abnormal for me. I would say that I experienced a faith crisis, and I went through and continue to go through an identity crisis because of it. But to make a long story short, [DW] and I are now on the other side without a testimony of the truth claims of Mormonism, and we are planning on taking a step away from the church to explore truth elsewhere. Fortunately, our faith in God and Christ are intact, so that is what will guide us.
I want you all to know that we’re not shutting the door on the church. We still love the values that the church advocates. We still plan to live as if we were active Mormons in terms of lifestyle decisions. We still see good in the church but we also see bad. Accordingly, we want to explore what else is out there and if in the end we don’t find any solace, we could very well find our way back attending church.
Please also find a way to respect our decision. We are not stepping away because we want to indulge in a sinful lifestyle. We are not stepping away because we have been overcome by anti-Mormon propoganda. On the contrary, we are leaving because there is substantive evidence that challenges Mormonism’s truth claims (surprisingly, the weight of this information is often only relevant to Mormons with an understanding of the implications for the church's claims - the information is too deep for outside (non-Mormon) critics to understand and weaponize in their efforts to fight against the church. A lot of the discussions about all this stuff occurs in Mormon-only circles). And unless you really want to know, we don’t plan on talking about this at all with any of you or being critical of you in any way for your faith in the church. In fact, I would recommend that if the church is working for you, if the Mormon community is working for you, I would advise not to look into the information. Standing on the other side, I don’t know if its worth the risk for the faith crisis that can ensue or even a challenged marriage if there is doctrinal/theological disagreement after the fact.
So this is where we are. It has been an extremely weighty decision especially because our primary concern has been for our kids, and how we will raise them with/without religion. If you’d like to have a greater understanding of this information war against the church and how to be empathetic with those who struggle with doubt, I’ve attached a transcript from a talk given by Patrick Mason, a leading Mormon neo-apologist (author of “Planted,” published by Deseret Book). Hopefully it can give you some insight and maybe some understanding to our decision.
Love you all!
[]
Some quotes that will hopefully allow you to sympathize with us and not brand us as apostates:
"There is a discrepancy between a church history that has been selectively rendered through the Church Education System and Sunday school manuals, and a less-flattering version universally accessible on the Internet. The problem is not so much the discovery of particular details that are deal breakers for the faithful; the problem is a loss of faith and trust in an institution that was less than forthcoming to begin with."
- Teryl Givens
"I think that for the Church to remain strong it has to reconstruct its narrative. The dominant narrative is not true; it can’t be sustained. The Church has to absorb all this new information or it will be on very shaky grounds and that’s what it is trying to do and it will be a strain for a lot of people, older people especially. But I think it has to change."
- Richard Bushman (author of Rough Stone Rolling)
[Patrick Mason talk pasted here]
Taken from this NOM post:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2762&hilit=patrick+mason
Hope this email finds everyone well, although admittedly, I know you may not find yourselves feeling well after further reading. I’m sure most of you know at this point, so we felt it would be best to be open and let you all know where we are with the church.
One of my colleagues is a deeply committed evangelical... and our conversations quickly moved to religious discussion/debate over time... Ultimately, he brought questions to me that I had never experienced before, so it took me online to FAIR Mormon to look for good responses to resolve his concerns with the church. However, when I went online I was introduced to a completely new information environment regarding the intricacies and nuances of Mormon history that I had never been aware of. In fact, I believe this information environment wasn’t even in existence during my mission.
Anyways, this led to a deep and intensive investigation of all the issues for over a year. It was painful, at least speaking for myself. I experienced a period of depression that was abnormal for me. I would say that I experienced a faith crisis, and I went through and continue to go through an identity crisis because of it. But to make a long story short, [DW] and I are now on the other side without a testimony of the truth claims of Mormonism, and we are planning on taking a step away from the church to explore truth elsewhere. Fortunately, our faith in God and Christ are intact, so that is what will guide us.
I want you all to know that we’re not shutting the door on the church. We still love the values that the church advocates. We still plan to live as if we were active Mormons in terms of lifestyle decisions. We still see good in the church but we also see bad. Accordingly, we want to explore what else is out there and if in the end we don’t find any solace, we could very well find our way back attending church.
Please also find a way to respect our decision. We are not stepping away because we want to indulge in a sinful lifestyle. We are not stepping away because we have been overcome by anti-Mormon propoganda. On the contrary, we are leaving because there is substantive evidence that challenges Mormonism’s truth claims (surprisingly, the weight of this information is often only relevant to Mormons with an understanding of the implications for the church's claims - the information is too deep for outside (non-Mormon) critics to understand and weaponize in their efforts to fight against the church. A lot of the discussions about all this stuff occurs in Mormon-only circles). And unless you really want to know, we don’t plan on talking about this at all with any of you or being critical of you in any way for your faith in the church. In fact, I would recommend that if the church is working for you, if the Mormon community is working for you, I would advise not to look into the information. Standing on the other side, I don’t know if its worth the risk for the faith crisis that can ensue or even a challenged marriage if there is doctrinal/theological disagreement after the fact.
So this is where we are. It has been an extremely weighty decision especially because our primary concern has been for our kids, and how we will raise them with/without religion. If you’d like to have a greater understanding of this information war against the church and how to be empathetic with those who struggle with doubt, I’ve attached a transcript from a talk given by Patrick Mason, a leading Mormon neo-apologist (author of “Planted,” published by Deseret Book). Hopefully it can give you some insight and maybe some understanding to our decision.
Love you all!
[]
Some quotes that will hopefully allow you to sympathize with us and not brand us as apostates:
"There is a discrepancy between a church history that has been selectively rendered through the Church Education System and Sunday school manuals, and a less-flattering version universally accessible on the Internet. The problem is not so much the discovery of particular details that are deal breakers for the faithful; the problem is a loss of faith and trust in an institution that was less than forthcoming to begin with."
- Teryl Givens
"I think that for the Church to remain strong it has to reconstruct its narrative. The dominant narrative is not true; it can’t be sustained. The Church has to absorb all this new information or it will be on very shaky grounds and that’s what it is trying to do and it will be a strain for a lot of people, older people especially. But I think it has to change."
- Richard Bushman (author of Rough Stone Rolling)
[Patrick Mason talk pasted here]
Taken from this NOM post:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2762&hilit=patrick+mason
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin
D Brisbin
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Re: We Left
Congratulations on the steps you've taken, I know well how hard those can be. If you don't mind sharing, how have the responses been so far?
- FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: We Left
Nice letter. I enjoyed your quotes from faithful mormon authors at the end.
Re: We Left
Congrats and wonderful letter!
Hopefully they don't get hung up on the identity crisis and resort to "we told you so!"
Hopefully they don't get hung up on the identity crisis and resort to "we told you so!"
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga
“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg
Re: We Left
Well constructed letter. I like that you didn't give them any specific issues to fester over.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Re: We Left
So far so good. My DW has sensed some awkwardness between her and some of her TBM friends who now know. I think we've handled it in a delicate enough way that people aren't offended. Interestingly, of those I've told no one wants to know the exact reasons/issues why. Seems like on average, TBMs know there's a dark side to Mormon history and don't want to venture there...IT_Veteran wrote: ↑Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:13 pm Congratulations on the steps you've taken, I know well how hard those can be. If you don't mind sharing, how have the responses been so far?
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin
D Brisbin
- IT_Veteran
- Posts: 565
- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:36 pm
- Location: California
Re: We Left
I think most of us have found that to be the case. They all assume you've been deceived and they know by the outcome that it's dangerous. If you can be deceived, so can they.Arcturus wrote: ↑Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:07 am So far so good. My DW has sensed some awkwardness between her and some of her TBM friends who now know. I think we've handled it in a delicate enough way that people aren't offended. Interestingly, of those I've told no one wants to know the exact reasons/issues why. Seems like on average, TBMs know there's a dark side to Mormon history and don't want to venture there...
My DW being the exception - she wanted to know what I did and actively researched it.
- RubinHighlander
- Posts: 1906
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- Location: Behind the Zion Curtain
Re: We Left
Excellent letter! I think you and your family are in good hands. I empathize with the mental and emotional stress you've been through on this journey, but it makes the freedom you now have all the more sweeter. Keep digging, keep questioning, the truth is out there. I'm glad your DW made the leap with you, that makes a big difference!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
--Douglas Adams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE
--Douglas Adams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE