NOM

Since the First Vision has been emphasized, starting around 1900-1920, the Church has distanced itself from the hypothesis that Joseph Smith’s concept of God evolved from quasi-trintarianism in 1829 to the “God was once a man” concept that distinguished the Church until Pres. Hinckley downplayed it around 2000. TBM’s would say that there was no evolution in what Joseph taught, but can this view stand in the face of a strict reading of the first edition BOM, Lectures on Faith, or The Joseph Smith Papers?

I think just a quick look at the first vision combined with the changes after the first version of the Book of Mormon make it more than clear that Joseph Smith originally believed in the trinitarian view.

The reason that Joseph Smith didn't claim to see both God and Jesus in his first version of the first vision is because (at the time) he didn't believe they were separate beings. As his theology changed, so did the first vision stories.

It also shows that the Book of Mormon was written by JS due to being changed after JS' views evolved, but I suppose that's a bit of a tangent from what you asked.

This is a bit of a change in topic but in the same vein. Is God to be feared or loved? Vengeful or compassionate? Active or passive?

6 years ago, my BIL passed away in a tragic series of events. Long story short, he overdosed on prescription drugs. Recently, My MIL, FIL, SIL and niece were visiting us. During the visit, we were reflecting a little bit on how we miss BIL.

My MIL is still TBM, she commented to the idea that maybe God would intervene to have saved BIL. Is there something God could have done to prevent his death. She believes that God has influence in our lives and steps in from time to time to resolve situations.

I told her I don't think he does. If he did nothing to stop the Holocaust, allowed the slave trade, the daily murders around the world, etc., why would he get involved in something as small as 1 person harming their self?

So LDS nature of God evolves regularly. One day he finds lost keys, the next he allows airplanes to crash into skyscrapers. He send angels to push handcarts in the snow but can't stop my BIL from Overdosing. The nature of LDS God is whatever is convenient at the moment. And when tragedy does strike, the best he can is help you feel better about it by pray, pay and obey.

Which God are we talking about?

The only way I can reconcile this evolution is to believe God seems to be created between man's ears.

This explains Joseph Smith's evolving deity.
This explains Gordon B Hinckley's evolving deity.
This explains Kishkumen's MIL's expectations of deity.
This explains Tom Cruise's scientological view of deity.
This explains Red Ryder's lacking belief in deity.

There is a really good book that talks about the evolving nature of God in Mormon theology (that is on-line for free) call Line Upon Line

Here are all the chapters:
01 – Speculative Theology: Key to a Dynamic Faith, by Thaddeus E. Shoemaker
02 – Defining the Contemporary Mormon Concept of God, by Van Hale
03 – The Earliest Mormon Concept of God, by Dan Vogel
04 – The Development of the Mormon Doctrine of God, by Boyd Kirtland
05 – The Reconstruction of Mormon Doctrine, by Thomas G. Alexander
06 – Omnipotence, Omnipresence, and Omniscience in Mormon Theology, by Kent E. Robson
07 – The Concept of a Finite God as an Adequate Object of Worship, by Blake Ostler
08 – Finitist Theology and the Problem of Evil, by Peter C. Appleby, revised by Gary James Bergera
09 – The Development of the Concept of a Holy Ghost in Mormon Theology, by Vern G. Swanson
10 – The Mormon Concept of a Mother in Heaven, by Linda P. Wilcox
11 – The Origin of the Human Spirit in Early Mormon Thought, by Van Hale
12 – The Idea of Preexistence in Mormon Thought, by Blake T. Ostler
13 – The Traditional Mormon Doctrine of Man, by George Boyd
14 – Salvation in the Theology of Joseph Smith, by David John Buerger
15 – Eternal Progression and the Second Death in the Theology of Brighan Young, by Boyd Kirtland
16 – Epilogue: Continuing Revelation and Mormon Doctrine, by Stephen L. Richards

Chapters 4, 6, 9 and 10 apply, but all chapters are a good read

One of the most profound moments I had reading Charles Harrell's book was when he explained how until the 20th century the identity of Jehovah and Elohim was up for debate and a source of great confusion. I had to do a double take and realize that the man who claimed to see both Jehovah and Elohim in the grove was using the title Father and Jehovah to talk about the same individual in the Kirtland Temple dedicatory prayer.

James Talmage had to synthesize and reinvent the Godhead for modern Mormonism.

If the "Evolving LDS Concept of God's Nature" hypothesis proves true, (and I think the evidence supports it), there are still two possibilities (and maybe more) for explaining it. One possibility is that Joseph made it up, but a second is that Joseph and/or God knew that 19th century people, ingrained in Trinity doctrine couldn't accept the "God was Once a Man" idea, and so it was revealed line upon line, in order for the people to get used to it. This idea, like "The Limited Geography Theory may eventually be adapted by thoughtful LDS, just as the "Limited Geography Hypothesis" is being adapted by many LDS thinkers today.
It also fits in with the "pious fraud"hypothesis, at least as I see it.

To me it is pretty clear the Joseph Smith was making it up as he went along.

If it was truly the case that Jesus/God/Holy Spirit were three distinct beings, why not have some doctrine in the Book of Mormon that supports it?

If it was just an issue that the people weren't ready to hear it, why did Joseph Smith's first account of the first vision have just one personage? He didn't bother to write it down for 12 years anyway, so clearly that detail could've matched what was going to come with the Mormon church.

If polygamy was going to be the new and everlasting covenant, why not have *some* scriptures that support God telling his prophets to go out and bang other people's wives?

If the priesthood was going to be restored as the Aaronic/Melchezidek priesthoods, why not have that laid out in the Book of Mormon? Why did they not appear until Sidney Rigdon showed up who just happened to be a Campbellite that was teaching those very priesthoods before he joined Joseph?

Why doesn't the DNA match as the BoM tells us it would?

I guess my point is that either Joseph Smith is a fraud, or Earth drew the short straw on the God we were given because he really sucks at picking prophets and planning out the laws of the land.

I agree with you. I just think that, just as limited geography in the BOM will (or has) gradually filter into LDS thought, so will evolution of the concept of God gradually become part of the thinking of many LDS.

deacon blues wrote:I agree with you. I just think that, just as limited geography in the BOM will (or has) gradually filter into LDS thought, so will evolution of the concept of God gradually become part of the thinking of many LDS.

It already has for some members exposed to the issue. I hit the subject hard with my father in law and he just said it was all part of the line upon line, precept upon precept concept. In the voice of brother Jake "see it's no big deal!"

There's some really good discussion about this on Mormon Stories episodes 944-946.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:36 am This is a bit of a change in topic but in the same vein. Is God to be feared or loved? Vengeful or compassionate? Active or passive?

6 years ago, my BIL passed away in a tragic series of events. Long story short, he overdosed on prescription drugs. Recently, My MIL, FIL, SIL and niece were visiting us. During the visit, we were reflecting a little bit on how we miss BIL.

My MIL is still TBM, she commented to the idea that maybe God would intervene to have saved BIL. Is there something God could have done to prevent his death. She believes that God has influence in our lives and steps in from time to time to resolve situations.

I told her I don't think he does. If he did nothing to stop the Holocaust, allowed the slave trade, the daily murders around the world, etc., why would he get involved in something as small as 1 person harming their self?

So LDS nature of God evolves regularly. One day he finds lost keys, the next he allows airplanes to crash into skyscrapers. He send angels to push handcarts in the snow but can't stop my BIL from Overdosing. The nature of LDS God is whatever is convenient at the moment. And when tragedy does strike, the best he can is help you feel better about it by pray, pay and obey.

Yes, this.