NOM

TL;DR - I need alcohol to get the taste of Joseph Smith out of my mouth.

It is with some trepidation that I relate where I have been in the past week. My in-laws just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary and they wanted a trip to Nauvoo with all of their children and grandchildren. They are are all devout believers and I spent a week visiting church history sites with them in Missouri and illinois.

Sunday and Monday

Branson, Missouri

We started out in Branson, Missouri. Branson features dozens of unintentionally hilarious billboards all 30 miles along the freeway that seem like they belong in the 1950s. It's like you were doing a subtle parody of Music and Americana and Branson decided to just run with it. Imagine a G-rated Las Vegas with no gambling. They just kept the shows and theme parks along with a lot of bold American patriotism. I can comprehend the charm of this place, but it's really gaudy in a goofy 1950s way.

The culmination was the Dolly Parton Stampede. Just look it up. It's a delightfully insane, politically incorrect celebration of the American West. The fact that this show sells out a thousand seats in 200 shows per year is the hidden basis behind why Donald Trump won the 2016 election.

Tuesday

Independence, Missouri Temple Lot

The temple lot does have a professional LDS visitor center that simply seems to lack context. The Brighamites simply call Missouri a gathering place for Zion with really soft definitions of what that means. It was kind of lame in a slick package. It was not at all specified if it was still a gathering place or if this gathering was successful.

The actual temple cornerstone is a sad trombone of a let down with this one unimpressive, tiny offshoot of a Joseph Smith denomination maintaining it. The Apologist in my group was confident that the LDS church is just biding its time waiting to buy this piece and build the grand temple of the New Jerusalem. He made some unflattering comments about how the CoC buildings would be need to be removed.

But the Temple Lot did give me the brief opportunity to relay the major events of the Temple Lot court case where the Brighamites lost the land. No one cared about the reason that the LDS church does not own the temple lot. The LDS church is overshadowed by two other more impressive buildings on that street corner.

The CoC temple was actually quite an interesting place. My mother-in-law did not think we could go in because we had no recommends. I had to point out that only the Brighamites prevent people from entering a sacred building without a recommend. They had a nice little museum that was worth seeing.

I was also almost surprised by how kind and self-effacing the CoC were towards the Brighamites and even FLDS that come by. These guys really are big tent Mormonism. No, I'm not planning to join a new church, but their whole approach was much more comfortable.

Their central hall was really amazing. That spiral on their building towers over a meeting hall with a beautiful organ. I am not really impressed by the spiral spire from the outside, but it is hollow on the inside and was objectively inspiring when you are in the benches. My artsy middle daughter just stared up in awe at the interior. I actually was impressed by their focus on devotion and much less on pushing their own missionary work and a hagiography of Joseph Smith.

Some of my family were weirdly uncomfortable seeing church history presented without Brigham Young showing up right after Joseph. There were a number of snarky comments from them. This was a theme that continued throughout the week.

Liberty Jail

The presentation at Liberty Jail felt like half of the real story. The building is kind of awkwardly placed in a residential area. The recreation is pretty impressive, but it was uncomfortably pushing the divine prophet mantle of Joseph Smith. And the only evidence of being a prophet was the production of D&C 121, 122, and 123 along with the Book of Mormon. I suppose that's plenty for the average believing Mormon.

The elder there spoke about the battle of Crooked River followed by the Haun's Mill Massacre. I don't want to take away from the tragedy of Haun's Mill. It was a terrible incident. The missionary presenting the story had a map of the area that included the city of Gallatin but no mention that Gallatin was reported to have been "completely gutted" by rampaging Mormons. Millport, Grindstone Fork and the smaller Missourian settlement of Splawn's Ridge were also plundered by the Mormons.

There are virtually no "good guys" in this story. I was just annoyed that a fuller history was simply left out. Violence initiated by the Mormons was entirely missing. I largely concur that Joseph Smith was wrongly imprisoned in Liberty jail. But this did not occur in a vacuum. He was just the leader of these screw ups.

The senior missionary also made a pretty bold statement about how the temptation and persecution are just as big today for our youth as during the 1830s. Today we have the Internet with anti-Mormon websites along with the usual Word of Wisdom temptations. I was in no position to ask some follow up questions, obviously.

We were joined by a tour bus of seminary students from Dallas, Texas stopping there before heading to Nauvoo. These poor suckers were spending their first week of summer break in the humid Missouri summer on a church history tour. Plus, you know they all listened to Russ Nelson tell them to put away their social media for the week. They probably are trapped in a cloud of social shame keeping them largely off Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter for the week while trapped in a bus.

The missionary sister was really pushing a full-time mission on these poor, impressionable youth. I really felt for the poor suckers, but then I remembered that I am equally captive this week.

Wednesday

Far West Temple Lot

Our first stop today was the temple lot at Far West. This is a small, fenced off park with borders marked off by stones for the corners of the alleged temple that will(?) be built there some day. It is in the middle of "Nowheresville: Farmland Edition". It features several large granite monuments inscribed with the real tenets of the LDS church:

1. The LDS church was oppressed and kicked out even though they did not deserve it.
2. Joseph Smith was awesome and remains the prophet we should all listen to
3. Tithing is an important commandment (seriously, this was prominently displayed)

There was a Community of Christ church building across the street. Realize that this was a farm road that was barely paved. Nothing was around at all except empty, green fields. It was just kind of weird to have this professional monument site surrounded by empty farmland. Some of my traveling companions were annoyed that the Community of Christ was intruding on their Far West Temple Lot.

It felt like the purpose of this site was only vaguely hinted at. It felt like it could not be more vague, but then we went to...

Adam-ondi-Ahman

This is just a hill over looking a plowed and planted field. There is a plaque indicating that Adam will totally show up just before the Second Coming. Also, Joseph Smith asserted that there were "remains of an old Nephite altar or tower". Seriously, it's recounted from History of the Church 3:35 so we now have the Prophet of the Restoration again firmly establish where the Nephites actually lived. Our group apologist is a big fan of the limited geography Mesoamerican location for the Book of Mormon. He was confident that this officially printed sign from the church was misquoting Joseph Smith somehow.

Thursday

Nauvoo

Each of the historical sites was actually interesting. I was actually intrigued by how each of the professions fit in a larger economy. Blacksmithing, gunsmithing, rope making, barrel making, cooking and others were actually shown with accurate details for the 19th century. But each presentation insisted on having a message that inevitably was about testimony building. It was specifically LDS testimony building, with a large helping of Joseph Smith and the book of Mormon. It was tedious. I would enjoy the technical presentation then have to patiently wait for them to explain why their craft is yet another thing that proclaims the truth of the institutional Brighamite church.

I am slightly embarrassed that Samuel Browning was a Mormon. His gunsmith shop was really interesting and his tools were fascinating to see. The fact that the Browning headquarters and R&D are still in Utah in impressive. But a spiritual message was again tacked onto this station.

None of the spiritual messages were all that different from what you have heard in youth Sunday school. It was pretty thin doctrine with little or no mention of Jesus Christ. I'm sure that no one is surprised that plural marriage never is talked about.

The CoC owns and maintains Joseph's mansion house and the Red Brick Store. This annoying to my family.

Friday

Carthage Jail and back to Nauvoo

The church has the usual professional presentation at Carthage. I did notice that LDS visitors centers are almost too slick for their own good. It's always a perfect display that almost feels over the top for the old stone building that is the Carthage Jail. It's fine and luckily short. There simply isn't much to say without getting into scholarly detail. The visitors center does have a clip from Holland's "Safety for the Soul" talk from October 2009 General Conference. This is the official start of the tour and not something you can skip. This completes the hagiography of Joseph Smith and I am getting tired of this guy.

This site did prompt a discussion that I have summarized below. Please note that I did not start this discussion:

Niece: Why was Joseph arrested?

Apologist: Anti-Mormons wrongly put him in jail.

Me: Perhaps, but he destroyed a printing press, the Nauvoo Expositor

Apologist: Well the press was guilty of, uh, disturbing the peace.

Me: Really? Was there something in the newspaper that was a problem?

Apologist: The paper had lies about Joseph Smith

Me: I've read the Nauvoo Expositor. It testifies of the truth of the Book of Mormon.

Apologist: Well, the publisher thought Joseph was a fallen prophet.

Me: Yes, but what was a lie in the paper?

Apologist (getting agitated, but has to maintain composure in front of daughters): Well, John C. Bennett was doing some really bad things.

Me: I agree, Bennett was not a good man. What was a lie about Joseph Smith?

Apologist (more worried): William Law was guilty of adultery.

Me (I think you are wrong, but let's stay on target): That would be a problem. What was a lie about Joseph Smith?

Apologist (finally losing it): It was inappropriate to talk about polygamy! They were not authorized to talk about plural marriage! (stalks off)

The conversation ends there and could have continued, of course, but I still have to live with these people for another day.

Red Brick Store

The Community of Christ has a small gift shop on the first floor and you are welcome to see the upper room which is still used for services. It's a much less polished presentation and I suspect that I am rather biased towards the CoC at this point. I mentioned how so many things were revealed up there, including section 132. The complete non-reaction to this statement was pretty much expected. The ones who don't get the context won't be moved by the Red Brick Store. The apologists did their best to not acknowledge this fact.

Downstairs was kind of interesting. It houses a CoC archeology lab. They are literally assembling pieces of pottery and glass that has been found around the houses. They have rebuilt most of Emma Smitth's favorite serving dish along with other ceramic pots, pans, and plates. They use "E6000" glue which is an adhesive you can can buy for cheap at any hardware store.

Land Record Office

This was kind of interesting. If you have ancestors who lived or passed through Nauvoo you can look up any kind of legal or ecclesiastic record that exists for them. In particular they will produce a map showing where anyone lived or farmed in the 1840s around Nauvoo.

Three of my ancestors had working farms on quarter sections in the surrounding counties. That was interesting to know, but one more ancestor owned a plot just a hundred yards from the Land Record Office that was within the touristy area staffed by missionaries. I walked over there with my wife to take a picture. There was a small replica log cabin on the site and it's most famous resident was not my ancestor, but was in fact, Patty Bartlett Sessions. I think my ancestor sold or gifted it to her.

it is right next to the Lyon Drug and Variety Store, owned by Windsor and Sylvia Sessions. Obviously I had to mention that both of these women were married to Joseph Smith. My dear wife did her best to not react to this fact.

Nauvoo Temple

We did baptisms for the dead with the teenagers. It was everything you remember about baptisms for the dead: routine, mechanical, and poorly sourced from a strained, insular reading of 1 Corinthians 15:29. I also note that the temple president's wife is Russell Nelson's daughter. This was told to me in hushed tones.

Trail of Hope

Nauvoo has a bunch of service missionaries that only serve for three months during the height of the tourist season. They are young adults and not under the same restrictions as full time missionaries, but do a lot of singing and performing. Some are returned missionaries, but not all. They have a fun, folksy, patriotic early evening show and then do the Trail of Hope. This is the emotional manipulation that is regularly inflicted on LDS youth summer camps. You follow a trail during the evening to quietly listen to a brief vignette talking about some aspect of the Mormon exit of Nauvoo in 1845 and 1846.

Each station had a young person or two that would recite from journals and a newspaper article or two. A few stops along the trail featured singing and violin playing. It was OK, I suppose. But that's only if I'm being generous because it was emotionally manipulative like everything else this whole damn week.

Summary

I get it. Being driven out of your home sucks. Doing that in winter is worse. I might even concede that the Mormons were trying to be good citizens but it's kind of like Michael Scott is trying to be a good manager on "The Office". Mormons today are so indignant about Missouri and Nauvoo but largely refuse to see any reason that the native population might have thought they were weird or problematic. They refuse to understand why the rest of Christendom won't consider them Christian and are ironically annoyed when Christendom calls the FLDS groups "Mormon".

The modern Nauvoo site is the Potemkin Village of LDS history. I have heard endless paeans to Joseph Smith this week but have learned nothing at all about his life that I did not already know from Seminary. Not a shred of information about plural marriage was provided. Absolutely nothing about translation was revealed. If I had not already known about his son, Joseph Smith III, I would have entirely missed that. Lewis Bidamon barely gets a mention in the CoC. Priesthood authority remains as a classic "argument from authority". The relation to other Christian churches was ignored except showing non-Mormon preachers as foils that either join the church or join a mob and drive out the Saints, yet again.

There is a large Catholic church by the Nauvoo temple. It is the Apostolic Church of Peter and Paul and it might as well be invisible since it was not built until after the Mormons left and who would possibly care about the town once the Mormons are gone? The Community of Christ is a tolerated presence only because they legally own the Mansion House, Red Brick Store, and the Smith family graveyard. Their relation in the scheme of LDS denominations is never explained and Joseph's descendants are simply lamented as "fallen into apostasy". There is virtually no mention of what happened to them and how Joseph Smith III and his sons and grandson led the RLDS into now being the CoC.

Friday was the 40th anniversary since Kimball lifted the priesthood and temple ban with Official Declaration 2. No mention of this event came up. I tried to mention it and no one cares.

Your account brings back memories of visiting some of the same sites. I remember I found the Christian bookstore in Nauvoo as the most interesting part of my visit. Is it still there? did you get a chance to see it? I think my shelf was still intact when I visited Nauvoo, except for the last time. (I've been there two or 3 times. It seemed like a Joseph Smith theme park really. Thanks for the tour guide, Corsair.

Nice review, I don't quite understand why we should be embarrassed about John M Browning (not Samuel) being a mormon. Afterall, without his inventions we would have fared much worse in WWII. I'm more embarrassed that his father had the propensity to convert. They were both genius inventors who did amazing things in the days before autocad and CNC machines.

I'm impressed you went the whole week without tearing your head off. I've been to those sites with believers too, but I didn't have apologists with me - just bored kids, unless they were riding the ox. That was cool.

But an excellent job in keeping the peace. We've been twice, once as a full-on TBM, and one as a very closeted NOM. It's a whole different experience when the kool-aid wears off, isn't it? I actually enjoyed it more the second time around, just from a history point of view. The heritage part is extremely well done on both sides, including the CoC as you mention here; luckily, even the kids found the LDS constant testimony bearing very off-putting, much to my unstated delight.

Glad you made it through the week!

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:08 pm My in-laws just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary and they wanted a trip to Nauvoo with all of their children and grandchildren. T

I have a question.

Is it pretty common for the grandparent generation to plan vacations to churchy spots so they can get all of their wayward (inactive) children and grandchildren to come together for something spiritual?

Example: "I just want to sit in the sacred grove together with the whole family, it's my lifelong dream."

nibbler wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:29 pm
I have a question.

Is it pretty common for the grandparent generation to plan vacations to churchy spots so they can get all of their wayward (inactive) children and grandchildren to come together for something spiritual?

Example: "I just want to sit in the sacred grove together with the whole family, it's my lifelong dream."

I know my parents would want this. My in-laws not so much. We celebrated my mother-in-law's birthday in France. Not a single LDS church was seen or visited.

nibbler wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:29 pm

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:08 pm My in-laws just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary and they wanted a trip to Nauvoo with all of their children and grandchildren. T

I have a question.

Is it pretty common for the grandparent generation to plan vacations to churchy spots so they can get all of their wayward (inactive) children and grandchildren to come together for something spiritual?

Example: "I just want to sit in the sacred grove together with the whole family, it's my lifelong dream."

Yes, that's pretty accurate for what my in-laws were planning. My mother-in-law was a YW leader and camp leader for years in different wards. She also organized lots of youth activities when her daughters were teenagers. The locations visited this week were largely what she would have built if she had a billion dollar budget behind her.

Yesterday before we went to the airport in St. Louis we stopped briefly by the Cahokia Mounds just over the river in Illinois from St. Louis. They were legitimately interesting as Native American ruins housing thousands of organized people from 600 - 1300 AD. However, MIL's not so veiled goal was to identify them as descendants of the Nephites that obviously lived in North America. She is a staunch fan of the Heartland setting for the Book of Mormon. Everyone in my family fully knows that events of this week were her agenda to show that the LDS church is totally what everyone should dedicate their lives towards. And, of course, that Joseph Smith was even more awesome and divinely correct than you learned in Sunday School.

Several times I was ready to jump out of that second story Carthage window myself.

I did that your as a child, as a teen, and then a few years ago in the early stages of my FC. Buy how ky impressions changed each time. 1st time- I don't care. This is boring. 2nd time- I got a testimony of JS at Carthage, and this is boring. 3rd time- well that's not exactly how it happened, and this is boring.

I hope I never go back!

MalcolmVillager wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:04 pm I did that your as a child, as a teen, and then a few years ago in the early stages of my FC. Buy how ky impressions changed each time. 1st time- I don't care. This is boring. 2nd time- I got a testimony of JS at Carthage, and this is boring. 3rd time- well that's not exactly how it happened, and this is boring.

I hope I never go back!

It seems that there is a segment of the LDS population that actually enjoys this kind of thing. But I really suspect that many Mormons are simply telling themselves that they enjoy these presentations. I think this is true even among many believers who see the shallowness of many aspects of LDS culture and history. Boredom haunts most official curriculum because anything truly interesting is just not faith promoting enough. I'm concerned that a lot of interesting material is omitted because it does not promote loyalty to the institutional LDS church.

The kind of deep understanding of doctrine does exist, but not so much within the talks that are publicly presented in leadership. I had stake conference this morning and the meeting began with a specific directive to not record any talk electronically. But seriously, nothing all that big was presented. We had an Area Authority Seventy at the meeting and his talk was not really memorable.

Thanks for the report. Brings back underwhelming memories as I went to those sites about 15 years ago. I tried to do the gymnastics to make those places like AOD and FW magical, but they didn't have the magic I was hoping for. If I had been honest with myself at the time it would have been more like "Really, that's it? This is the place some of us more special TBMs get to hike back to when the $hit goes down and JC comes back again?"

Congrats on getting the family to at least visit the CoC sites. Many don't want to visit sites that aren't owned by Salt Lake.

Another reason to like CoC: the root beer sold at the Red Brick Store is pretty good. I recommend buying a bottle if you're visiting.

Great write up Corsair!

My wife has mentioned many times that she'd like to visit church history sites. I've always pushed back mostly because it seemed boring. The last thing I ever wanted to do on vacation was go to more "church."

But this has me thinking. Maybe I'll let her know I'd be up for a visit to Missouri and Illinois if she'd be willing to actually learn real history of the relevant locations. I thinks she'd at least acknowledge that we'd only get one side of the story at church-run history sites, so what better way to prepare for a trip than to learn about the history the church doesn't tell?

What do you think?

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:22 pm

nibbler wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:29 pm

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:08 pm My in-laws just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary and they wanted a trip to Nauvoo with all of their children and grandchildren. T

I have a question.

Is it pretty common for the grandparent generation to plan vacations to churchy spots so they can get all of their wayward (inactive) children and grandchildren to come together for something spiritual?

Example: "I just want to sit in the sacred grove together with the whole family, it's my lifelong dream."

Yes, that's pretty accurate for what my in-laws were planning. My mother-in-law was a YW leader and camp leader for years in different wards. She also organized lots of youth activities when her daughters were teenagers. The locations visited this week were largely what she would have built if she had a billion dollar budget behind her.

There must have been a fireside somewhere that put this idea into everyone's heads, because my in-laws are doing the same thing. They wrote a letter saying that all they want for their wedding anniversary is to have all their children in the temple at Nauvoo. My in-laws know that we aren't active and felt like their anniversary would be good leverage to guilt us into returning to activity.

We had to explain to them, again, that our inactivity is not due to laziness, but to the fact that we don't believe. If it was just a matter of going on a trip and visiting a church service, then sure, no problem. But what they're asking is at least a year of activity, 10% of our income, and then lying about what we actually believe. Honestly, that's not an option.

Thanks for the recap. I grew up in Chicago and we would always got he Church history sites for youth trips. This brought back lots of fun memories. I was a teenager and didn't really care about where we were just as long as if I was with my friends.

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:08 pm
We were joined by a tour bus of seminary students from Dallas, Texas stopping there before heading to Nauvoo. These poor suckers were spending their first week of summer break in the humid Missouri summer on a church history tour. Plus, you know they all listened to Russ Nelson tell them to put away their social media for the week. They probably are trapped in a cloud of social shame keeping them largely off Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter for the week while trapped in a bus.

Some of these might have been my cousins! I know they went on a church history trip from Dallas. But they couldn't post about it because of RMN

græy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:20 am But this has me thinking. Maybe I'll let her know I'd be up for a visit to Missouri and Illinois if she'd be willing to actually learn real history of the relevant locations. I thinks she'd at least acknowledge that we'd only get one side of the story at church-run history sites, so what better way to prepare for a trip than to learn about the history the church doesn't tell?

What do you think?

I really don't anticipate that a church history tour will produce the kind of critical examination you would hope for. Anything the LDS church builds will be specifically engineered to build loyalty to the institutional church and reverence for Joseph Smith and his authorized successors. I know that the LDS church and the CoC have worked together quite amicably in the past century, but this is not an attitude that is passed on to the average Brighamite that might be interested in a church history tour.

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:09 pm I really don't anticipate that a church history tour will produce the kind of critical examination you would hope for. Anything the LDS church builds will be specifically engineered to build loyalty to the institutional church and reverence for Joseph Smith and his authorized successors. I know that the LDS church and the CoC have worked together quite amicably in the past century, but this is not an attitude that is passed on to the average Brighamite that might be interested in a church history tour.

You're right, I have little hope of the tour itself inspiring any sort of critical thought. But I could ask for some honest, unbiased study beforehand. If she finally commits to reading (and discussing) Richard Bushman, Fawn Brodie (or maybe even Turner's Pioneer Prophet) before any sort of trip, that might just make it worth while.

As it is, she will listen (sometimes indignantly) to something I try to share, but in the end she'll still dismiss it because she didn't read it herself and "maybe he's misunderstanding what he's reading" or "he's just angry about his calling and looking for reasons to be mad." If she studies on her own though, maybe she wouldn't dismiss it so easily?

I'm probably just grasping at straws anyway. She doesn't really care that much. As long as we keep paying tithing, she's content.

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:10 pm

MalcolmVillager wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:04 pm I did that your as a child, as a teen, and then a few years ago in the early stages of my FC. Buy how ky impressions changed each time. 1st time- I don't care. This is boring. 2nd time- I got a testimony of JS at Carthage, and this is boring. 3rd time- well that's not exactly how it happened, and this is boring.

I hope I never go back!

It seems that there is a segment of the LDS population that actually enjoys this kind of thing. But I really suspect that many Mormons are simply telling themselves that they enjoy these presentations. I think this is true even among many believers who see the shallowness of many aspects of LDS culture and history. Boredom haunts most official curriculum because anything truly interesting is just not faith promoting enough. I'm concerned that a lot of interesting material is omitted because it does not promote loyalty to the institutional LDS church.

I'm happy to say that even when I was a true believer, I was never interested in visiting any of the church history sites. I always felt I got enough church on Sundays.

It is interesting to me how many people are into this sort of thing. It's like some sort of visit to Mecca that you have to do at least once in your lifetime. And there are people who want to visit as many temples as possible. There are people in our ward who drag their kids on vacations to as many temples as they can, proudly boasting of the total number of temples they've visited / done baptisms in. I'm at the point that even when I'm in a foreign country with a temple I don't bother to go see it. It's like the same pig in a different shade of lipstick. No thanks.

My family Visited Navoo back in the summer of 2000, After I graduated from high school and waiting to go on my mission. At the time, the Navoo temple was still under construction. They were working on pouring the concrete walls when I was there. ON one hand it was interesting, but in a sterile museum sort of way. You have all these restored building where they talk about what they did, but didn't actually do it. I actually thought the Blacksmith shop was the most interesting because they actually made stuff there. (prairie diamond rings) They talk about making history come to life, but stop short of actually recreating history. That has always bugged me. With an operation as large ans Navoo is, most similar sized recreation towns are much more functional and way more interesting because if it.

One evening, we were at a big song and dance thing by the river. Part of it they taught everyone to dance something. I still remember, I was paired up with some girl my age from somewhere else, and she refused to even talk to me let alone dance, instead she danced with a girl from her group. Nothing like getting stood up at a family church dance by a complete stranger... Early shelf item.

I also remember them talking about how it was from that park that they cross the river when they left the city in the exidous. When I pointed out that the river was much higher now because of the dam built several miles south and the actual river port would have been over a mile west from where we were, and our actual location was just more housing, they didn't like that I ruined their moment.

When I went it was also the start of the Navoo Pagent. We went the night of the final dress rehersal. Then, you get to go with only 50-100 other guests. See the full play done with performance level standards. Afterwards we got to talk to the director and a couple cast members. Because most of the other people already left.

For a long time, my parents wanted to go on a church mission to Navoo. Tour guides during the day and genealogy at night. To be fair, they would have done well. My dad is an engineer and into historical building techniques and my mom is very skilled with yarn and knitting. She can make yard from raw wool, so she would put on a good show. For better or worse, my dad has had a number of health issues sense retirement and was never able to be well enough to go. Probably cheaper this way.

Excellent write up corsair, that would have driven me bonkers in my current state of mind.

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:08 pm The culmination was the Dolly Parton Stampede.

You would imagine she would be too old to stampede. Hope no one got injured in running the streets of Nauvoo.

I would love to see Nauvoo. Not sure it would have the same historical symbolism as standing next to the Liberty Bell or consecrating two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions, on a sesame-seed bun as a sacrificial offering on the altar of Adam-ondi-Ahman, but it would still be fun.

Imagine what a spiritual experience it would be for the group to feel so inspired they would spontaneously break out in song, "Yippee ki yay, yippee ki yo, they were Ghost Riders in the Sky". Lucky Corsair.