NOM

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:08 pm
“I observed the pain and frustration experienced by those who suffered these restrictions and those who criticized them and sought for reasons. I studied the reasons then being given and could not feel confirmation of the truth of any of them,” President Oaks said. “As part of my prayerful study, I learned that, in general, the Lord rarely gives reasons for the commandments and directions He gives to His servants. I determined to be loyal to our prophetic leaders and to pray...

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:08 pm The second is, what kind of God gives stupid commandments like this without any explanation? What's the point of having prophets if they can't figure out WHY God commands you to leave out men of a different colour from having the priesthood? Or the larger question, over half of the human race from having "his" authority? Many of you know that I have a narcissistic parent, and this is the kind of crap she would spew when I questioned her - "just do it because I told you too!" I never realized God was a narcissist as well as a racist. That's a new one, even for Oaks.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:08 pm
“As part of my prayerful study, I learned that, in general, the Lord rarely gives reasons for the commandments and directions He gives to His servants.

alas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:00 am Actually, I think this demonstrates the biggest problem I have with the church. It promotes men who are loyal and obedient to the church, rather than good, honest, truth seeking, loving, Christlike men. They promote others who stopped listening to their own sense of right and wrong, their conscience, and now only listen to *the church*. So, look carefully at what Oaks did here. He saw something that was hurting people. He thought about it and studied it and found no reason to justify this pain. But *the church* said it was right and good, so he threw his own conscience, his in born sense of right and wrong, his "light of Christ" under the bus. Once you throw your ability to tell right from wrong under the bus, it is easy to throw God under the bus. And you see nothing wrong with throwing God and goodness under the bus because your first and only loyality it to *the church*.

foolmeonce wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:27 am It's been a while since I've read it, but doesn't this talk contradict the Race Essay? Isn't the theme of that one "Yeah, the early prophets were bigots, but give them a break, so was everyone else" ?

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:28 pm

foolmeonce wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:27 am It's been a while since I've read it, but doesn't this talk contradict the Race Essay? Isn't the theme of that one "Yeah, the early prophets were bigots, but give them a break, so was everyone else" ?

You know, I went back and read the entire essay from top to bottom. While they do decry all of the theories that led to the ban (which interestingly enough, as pointed out by some dude/dudette on reddit, Oaks claimed the church IMMEDIATELY decried in 1978, to which I call BS as did a number of other reddit commenters) I did not see anywhere in the essay that said the ban itself did not come from God. So while they say the theories that led to the ban are erroneous, and there is no good reason for the ban itself, nowhere does it say that it was NOT a commandment of God. So legal eagle Oaks can then swoop in and say that we "just don't know why God does what he does." Isn't this what us laymen call plausible deniability?

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:28 pm Isn't this what us laymen call plausible deniability?

Palerider wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:37 pm


Here, let me fix this.

1. I observed...something that seemed wrong, a great injustice.

2. I studied....tried to figure out if there was any possible justification.

3. I learned....there wasn't.

4. I determined....to take the chicken $h!t way out and keep my mouth shut.

5. I am...a gutless wonder....and you should all follow my example.

foolmeonce wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:27 am It's been a while since I've read it, but doesn't this talk contradict the Race Essay? Isn't the theme of that one "Yeah, the early prophets were bigots, but give them a break, so was everyone else" ?

IT_Veteran wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:07 am

It’s almost as if God isn’t actually speaking to men (or at least these ones).

I mean, the only other explanation is that he’s an asshole.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:20 pm

I think you hit it on the head, as palerider did above. It's bizarre to think that this smart lawyer, who taught in a law school and became president of a major university, could study out a problem in his mind, realize the priesthood ban had no basis in scripture or reality, was unsatisfied with any response the church came up with, and um, stayed quiet about it? Out of some misguided loyalty? Isn't it even more loyal and more morally courageous to give the church your best self, and passionately discuss with anybody willing to listen about rescinding a ban you know is not correct? Something you know not only by study, but by the "spirit?" What a cop-out. Thanks to you both for pointing this out.

Loyalty to the church does come at the cost to one's soul. This is now clear.