NOM

OK so I've been working on a thing covering the priesthood "restoration" with regards to what church history says vs the church narrative and want to put it up on a website.

UPDATE 5/30 - I now have a rough version of the timeline and the LDS essay up. If anyone wants to read it and send suggestions of things I could add/subtract/change/make better, etc just let me know.

You can see them both at: https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysite
https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysite/bantimeline (timeline)
https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysit ... -ban-essay (essay)

I think before I finish that I want to start with something on blacks and the priesthood because of the Be One event and I'm hoping I could get something up in the next two days... will put a little into advertising it on facebook as well to try and 'launch' the site as I add topics.

I wanted to cover it in multiple sections and was thinking of something along these lines:

1. Timeline of the priesthood ban including big moments in US history (end of slavery, equal rights act, etc) to show how behind the times the church is

2. Basic overview of the ban including quotes from every president of the church incorporating things like the 1949/1969 statements to show how the church continually called this move to be from god. Will also highlight how the racism came from the book of abraham which is something that many members never concede.

3. Taking the church essay on blacks and the priesthood and adding notes to point out where they have been dishonest/gaslighting about their role in it as doctrine

4. A look at common apologetic arguments about the ban and answer them head on - will pick from FAIR/LDS Answers/etc

5. List of sources to further research (the recent By Common Consent smackdowns, Brother Jake video, LDS links, etc)

Does anyone thing this could be effective and if so... anything you would add or subtract? I want to try and give an overview that each page builds on, so wanted to start with the timeline, go into the overview, and then just pick apart that essay to show what a complete gaslighting job the church has done with the ban.

Anyway - I had a rough few weeks of work, but tomorrow I plan on just plowing this thing through so I can it up quickly. Going to spend just a little bit on Facebook ads if it looks OK and try to promote it a bit to coincide with the Be One event. Why... I don't know... but I am really wanting to burn this church to the ground with their own history, and I am hoping to build something here that can be helpful to those who are open to looking at the real history.

Thanks for any advice/comments/feedback/rants/lectures/hellos.

• Public statements made by GAs despite official statements from prior leaders. For instance, the recent ensign article quoting Holland in contrast to the 1949 statement. There's a thread on NOM about that ensign article. It'd be cool to highlight the contradiction and the current gaslighting.

• Scrape statements by BY in Journal of Discourses. He said awful stuff. Specifically, there are statements of him mingling his blood atonement theology... Basically that those "mixing seed" with a descendent of Cain are worthy of death. Deplorable...

• Maybe investigate that BYU prof who stated in a big-time media interview that a potential reason why blacks were denied the priesthood was so they couldn't go up the ladder and have a longer time to fall? See if it correlates to statements made by GAs? I actually heard this rationale used recently by an orthodox member who I've previously admired, but they revealed their racism by suggesting that blacks are still an inferior race. Couldn't believe it...

This is a great article by Lester Bush. It was in Dialogue Journal and was written before the change in 1978. Supposedly it had a big influence on SWK's decision to make the change. It's long but well worth the read. Lots and lots of information.

https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N01_13.pdf

Lowry Nelson. google if you don't know the story.

Your write up needs to include that Black women were also excluded from the temple as part of the ban.

http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org ... er-future/

Fun fact: ^^^this lovely little piece put a fatal crack in my shelf.^^^ My shelf didn't exactly break when I read it, but there was no going back.

Contrast the ideas of early church leaders versus some of the best abolitionist leaders of the day. I can recommend the 2006 movie "Amazing Grace" as a delightful movie story of how William Wilberforce organized the end of slavery in England at the time just before Joseph and Brigham messed things up for another century. This is in addition to men like Benjamin Lay who clearly were acting far beyond "men of their time" in opposing slavery.

I would also note that Community of Christ was founded by Joseph Smith III in 1860 and never had a priesthood ban. They were, of course, called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints until just recently. Descendents of Joseph Smith are still prominently involved in the church, in contrast to our Brighamite organization that clings to descendents of Hyrum Smith, because they could not attract the First Family of Mormonism to emigrate to Utah.

OK - Working on this now. Love the suggestions and I am going to incorporate as much as I can into it.

This is taking me longer than I thought it would (shocker, I know), but I am hoping to get this at least somewhat done by tomorrow so I can have it live for the Be One event. I'm a jerk, I know, but I am hoping to do some quick ads for the page on Facebook and see if it can get a little traction... I am thoroughly annoyed at how the church is trying to pat itself on the back for ending racism after everyone else did.

I'll post updates here as I get the sections done to see what you all think - it is going to take a lot of editing/work over the weeks to get these topics up, but it's good for me to work through my church anger, and I hope it'll help someone down the road and I'm going to try my absolute best to not take an antagonistic approach anywhere so that both sides can be heard, even if the ultimate takeaway is that the church is full of it.

2bizE wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 9:23 pm Lowry Nelson. google if you don't know the story.

This!

Listen to this podcast where they read the correspondence between Lowery and the COB! They don't even comment, just listening to the actual words in the letters really opened my eyes as to where this official doctrine/policy came from:

http://infantsonthrones.com/lowry-nelso ... ert-smith/

Put them up against JRH's recent deneial that we don't know where the doctrine/policy came from and he looks like a dodo!

There is a chapter on blacks/PH in Greg Prince's David O. McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism that is fascinating as to how the Q15 saw the ban leading up to the 1978 declaration. All of the infighting and the hardliners (Harold B. Lee and Joseph Fielding Smith) against Hugh B. Brown who supported both desegregation and lifting the ban. They argued back and forth about whether it was a policy or a doctrine. One thing I didn't know was that there were really two issues at the time the Q15 saw as different, desegregation and the ban itself. Ezra Taft Benson saw desegregation as a communist plot and convinced some of the Q15 of this, including DOMcKay. DOMcKay saw the PH ban as a policy to be changed but was personally against desegregation. I could go on, but it was pretty interesting stuff; definitely not a bunch of caring older men talking on the bat phone with Jesus in the temple about how to best approach this issue.

As an aside, the late 1960s and early 70s when JFSmith became prophet sort of mirrors what is happening now with LGBT issues and the church. Older hardliner prophet with a hardliner next in line, a liberal dumped from the 1st presidency, hot button social issue....maybe in about 8 years we'll have Official Declaration 3 added to the D&C.

2bizE wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 9:23 pmLowry Nelson. google if you don't know the story.

It was Lowry Nelson challenging the Church leadership on their racial theories and practices that lead to the 1949 LDS First Presidency statement on the denial of religious freedom for those of African descent and the reasoning behind it. In a strange twist of history, the Church now uses the term religious freedom as a code word for continuing to discriminate against same-sex marriages.

.

Ok - I have a rough 'timeline' and then a rough 'LDS Essay annotated' up - if anyone cares to read it let me know what you think. If there's anything to add, subtract, or if the tone sucks on my essay notes... just let me know.

You can see them both at: https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysite
https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysite/bantimeline (timeline)
https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysit ... -ban-essay (essay)

I'll fix web addresses and all that later... just trying to get some formatting done and figure out how best to do this.

I was thinking of Hagoth with the essay part - that's hard to do without just losing your mind when you read what the church is saying vs the reality of what they actually did. 'I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!'

jfro18 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 9:47 pm Ignore the awful web address and the main page/template... just trying to get the pages loosely set and then I'll work on getting a cleaner design.

This is the timeline I have so far- can anyone think of items to add/clarify/delete on this?

https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysite/timeline

I didn't want to post it here since it's pretty long, but I can if that would be easier.

This link doesn't work.

Didn't JSJr have a black woman sealed to him as a servant for the eternities? That would make for a interesting counterpoint to Elijah Able.


Yup, Jane Elizabeth Manning. Sealed as a servant to JS's family in Navoo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Manning_James

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 2:45 pm

jfro18 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 9:47 pm Ignore the awful web address and the main page/template... just trying to get the pages loosely set and then I'll work on getting a cleaner design.

This is the timeline I have so far- can anyone think of items to add/clarify/delete on this?

https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysite/timeline

I didn't want to post it here since it's pretty long, but I can if that would be easier.

This link doesn't work.

Try this one: https://ldsdiscussion.wixsite.com/mysite/bantimeline

That one is good.

Corsair wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:40 am Contrast the ideas of early church leaders versus some of the best abolitionist leaders of the day. I can recommend the 2006 movie "Amazing Grace" as a delightful movie story of how William Wilberforce organized the end of slavery in England at the time just before Joseph and Brigham messed things up for another century. This is in addition to men like Benjamin Lay who clearly were acting far beyond "men of their time" in opposing slavery.

I would also note that Community of Christ was founded by Joseph Smith III in 1860 and never had a priesthood ban. They were, of course, called the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints until just recently. Descendents of Joseph Smith are still prominently involved in the church, in contrast to our Brighamite organization that clings to descendents of Hyrum Smith, because they could not attract the First Family of Mormonism to emigrate to Utah.

Recognizing the RLDS/CofC policy is an effective way of pointing out how revelation really works in the LDS church. Showing that one Mormon sect never had a priesthood ban sheds a new light on the topic.

Also, where I was raised (Rexburg, Idaho 1960-78) the Book of Abraham was considered scriptural evidence of a priesthood ban. Adding it to the LDS scripture was surely significant to the Ban.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 7:07 am
Recognizing the RLDS/CofC policy is an effective way of pointing out how revelation really works in the LDS church. Showing that one Mormon sect never had a priesthood ban sheds a new light on the topic.

Also, where I was raised (Rexburg, Idaho 1960-78) the Book of Abraham was considered scriptural evidence of a priesthood ban. Adding it to the LDS scripture was surely significant to the Ban.

I definitely mentioned how the Book of Abraham contributed to the ban in the annotated essay area. Maybe I should add that to the timeline as well, since it had a major impact on the decision.

I should also find a way to note the RLDS never had a ban... the idea of revelation is ridiculous for the church, especially when you compare how JS claimed to receive it vs how the prophets since have claimed/not claimed to receive it.

Corsair wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:40 am I can recommend the 2006 movie "Amazing Grace" as a delightful movie story of how William Wilberforce organized the end of slavery in England at the time just before Joseph and Brigham messed things up for another century. This is in addition to men like Benjamin Lay who clearly were acting far beyond men of their time in opposing slavery.

Some men were granted early enlightenment and others because of lesser valiancy in the pre-existence had to wait until 1978 before further light and knowledge was revealed to them.

moksha wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:26 pm

Corsair wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:40 am I can recommend the 2006 movie "Amazing Grace" as a delightful movie story of how William Wilberforce organized the end of slavery in England at the time just before Joseph and Brigham messed things up for another century. This is in addition to men like Benjamin Lay who clearly were acting far beyond men of their time in opposing slavery.

Some men were granted early enlightenment and others because of lesser valiancy in the pre-existence had to wait until 1978 before further light and knowledge was revealed to them.

Moksha, you are a Gem. You could have been a heck of a Seminary teacher. (Maybe you were )