NOM

DW has slowly been coming into her own faith crisis. Polygamy and patriarchy are her main issues. She started with the essays and has been working through Year of Polygamy for almost a year. She has started to really see all the messy social issues and cultural shaming etc.

So she headed to Utah for a nephew's temple wedding. We both have TR's but neither of us have gone to the temple in 2+ years outside of one other wedding and youth baptism trips. She seriously struggled with this trip because last second her family sprung a baptism for the dead session for all the nieces and nephews and another niece taking out her endowments making 3 straight days at the temple. She just couldn't do all the temple stuff as she really struggles with the inherent polygamy and patriarchy in the ordinances and covenants there.

Anyway, she told me she was going to do her best to keep her mouth shut but feared she would say somethijng stupid. Well this AM she texted saying it was horrible and she was coming home early.

She finally called this afternoon and told me the whole thing. She brought up polygamy and fallible leaders. The family went into defense and attack mode. One brother is a litigating attorney and really laid into her. He said he is really worried for her and that she should go there. He has been a BP twice and says 75% of the problems he dealt with were caused by or dealing with women. That somehow was evidence woman should not be leaders and were incapable of holdijng the PH.

6 or 7 adults defended the church with all the typical "of course the leaders are imperfect but they speak to God" apologetics. It was shated with other family who wasn't even there within an hour.

She ended up leaving her family and went to talk to my mom who lives nearby. She is active and nuanced but having processed all this stuff she was able to listen and love her unconditionally for 2.5 tear filled hours.

She is going to tough out the last 24 hours but her eyes were really opened.

This stuff sucks. Why do Mormons have to destroiy all signs of weakness, or drive it out of the fold.

This is why I was so hesitant to share this stuff with her for many years. That is a painful rabbit hole. The personal anguish is hard enough but the family and community strife is what really hurts. It's not fair. Our tribal ancestors needed unity, conformity, and loyalty to survive. Those traits are more likely to destroy modern man. They are divisive and destructive.

This all gets so complicated. We will see where we go from here.

I am sure we will have some heart to hearts in the coming weeks.

I'm sorry she's hurting. That sounded painful.

Sucks. It's worse when something awful happens to someone you're really close to like a spouse or a child. You just want to suffer it instead of them, but you can't.

If there's a bright spot right now, Malcom, it's that she has you. Somehow, you sitting there and hurting with her will take some of her pain away.

Reuben wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 12:05 am Sucks. It's worse when something awful happens to someone you're really close to like a spouse or a child. You just want to suffer it instead of them, but you can't.

If there's a bright spot right now, Malcom, it's that she has you. Somehow, you sitting there and hurting with her will take some of her pain away.

So true. I am lucky that we can do this together. We are going to try to attend the Mormon Matters retreat in a few weeks. I love Natadha Helfer Parker and Dan Wotherspoon does a great job of staying positive. I am not sure if we will ever leave the church, but if we do, it will be a slow fade. The violence that happens in relationships is painful.

There are lots of relationships to manage. I always have to tell myself and others going through this to go slow, be gentle, and that it gets better.

MalcolmVillager wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 7:21 am

Reuben wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 12:05 am Sucks. It's worse when something awful happens to someone you're really close to like a spouse or a child. You just want to suffer it instead of them, but you can't.

If there's a bright spot right now, Malcom, it's that she has you. Somehow, you sitting there and hurting with her will take some of her pain away.

So true. I am lucky that we can do this together. We are going to try to attend the Mormon Matters retreat in a few weeks. I love Natadha Helfer Parker and Dan Wotherspoon does a great job of staying positive. I am not sure if we will ever leave the church, but if we do, it will be a slow fade. The violence that happens in relationships is painful.

There are lots of relationships to manage. I always have to tell myself and others going through this to go slow, be gentle, and that it gets better.

thanks for this

I am so sorry for what your wife is going through. Been there and done that. So happy though that she has your love and support...still let her take her time and let her mourn some things. The process is a reality that we never knew..make some lemonade out of all these lemons.. Be there. Someday she will understand more about you. This will be important because from here on out..you are not just a team..but good friends who love eachother. That will surpass anything the church will ever have to offer. God Bless You! Keep us posted.

Margarita

I am lucky that we can do this together. We are going to try to attend the Mormon Matters retreat in a few weeks. I love Natadha Helfer Parker and Dan Wotherspoon does a great job of staying positive. I am not sure if we will ever leave the church, but if we do, it will be a slow fade. The violence that happens in relationships is painful.

There are lots of relationships to manage. I always have to tell myself and others going through this to go slow, be gentle, and that it gets better.

Very true.

It is so hurtful when TBM relatives go on the attack and make personal insults or misogynistic statements. I'm sorry that your wife had to go through this.
Doing a slow fade, it seems, is the best way to back away and still keep relationships intact. JMO -- Wndr.

There's a really nice house in my neighborhood for sale if you want to move south and get away from the Mormons, the family, and the cold!

One of the benefits of taking it slow is that it gives the church plenty of time to shoot itself in the foot and it's members to push it's own people out.

I really don't recall rhetoric like we are seeing now with family defenders of the faith getting so batshit crazy! Has Mormonism always produced these crazy people and we're just now recognizing it because our eyes have been opened?

Give her a hug and let her experience marinate! Together you can drift off into normalcy!!

People are shit.

Archimedes wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 4:20 pm People are shit.

Sad but true. I just didn't expect her own family to be the worst.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 3:21 pm There's a really nice house in my neighborhood for sale if you want to move south and get away from the Mormons, the family, and the cold!

One of the benefits of taking it slow is that it gives the church plenty of time to shoot itself in the foot and it's members to push it's own people out.

I really don't recall rhetoric like we are seeing now with family defenders of the faith getting so batshit crazy! Has Mormonism always produced these crazy people and we're just now recognizing it because our eyes have been opened?

Give her a hug and let her experience marinate! Together you can drift off into normalcy!!

I would love to get out of here. We had a job opportunity last fall but it was to small town PA in the heart of Amish country. I just couldn't do that to the family.

It would be fun to get the quorum together again! I may have a business trip that way again soon.

Margarita wrote: ↑Sun May 13, 2018 12:12 pm I am so sorry for what your wife is going through. Been there and done that. So happy though that she has your love and support...still let her take her time and let her mourn some things. The process is a reality that we never knew..make some lemonade out of all these lemons.. Be there. Someday she will understand more about you. This will be important because from here on out..you are not just a team..but good friends who love eachother. That will surpass anything the church will ever have to offer. God Bless You! Keep us posted.

Margarita

So true. Lemonade time!

DW has had a few fits of anger about polygamy and abuse of power in today's church. She has talked about leaving in those moments of rage. Harsh words and rash decisions can be made in moments of pain and anger. I don't want to jet out at the first sign, because I know it would be a very hard and painful process for the whole family.

So we will go slowly. If that is where fate takes us, so be it. If not, I don't want to force anything.

I have long told myself and others that relationships and decisions that take too much work or are forced usually end badly. After seeing some of the ugly side of exmo life from the observance of others I am cautious.

There is a right way and time to do everything.

Red Ryder wrote:.
I really don't recall rhetoric like we are seeing now with family defenders of the faith getting so batshit crazy! Has Mormonism always produced these crazy people and we're just now recognizing it because our eyes have been opened?

Its always been pretty much like that. Not for everyone of course. Some families react pretty well but there have always been ones that react poorly like this. Mostly it's just that we're more aware with our changes of belief.

But, I do think it's gotten a little worse. It's not that the church has changed much. But society has. The comment that women are the cause of most problems and couldn't handle the priesthood isn't that unusual in Mormonism. But in society today it's really jarring.

Hugs to Mrs. Villager!!

That must have been so rough and she is so brave for doing that!!!

She would like the FB group Exponent II. They are a really great group of ladies who have been through similar experiences.

MalcolmVillager wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 7:55 pm One brother is a litigating attorney and really laid into her. He said he is really worried for her and that she should go there. He has been a BP twice and says 75% of the problems he dealt with were caused by or dealing with women. That somehow was evidence woman should not be leaders and were incapable of holdijng the PH.

^^^^This guy is a grade-A A$$HOLE!!!!