NOM

My husband and I talked religion with a couple we're close friends with recently. We didn't admit that we no longer believe but came pretty close. I felt like I handled it pretty well, sticking with "I feel" statements, etc. They didn't take it well. The wife raised her voice and got extremely defensive and the husband adopted a holier-than-thou sort of attitude. They are super TBM but I was still hopeful that if I approached it right they would still accept us. We were able to wind down the conversation ok before they left. I figured they'd need some time to process it but we'd be ok. I mean we've been friends for years.

Long story short, they have been avoiding us. It was getting obvious. Finally DH directly asked if it was about the church convo. Of course it was, but beyond that they made personal attacks against me and claimed that I had "malicious" intent and was attacking what they know. They said that we brought an evil, contentious feeling (weird, since they were the ones with raised voices interrupting me!!!) There goes that friendship.

I have been crying off and on all day. She was one of my best friends and I really thought I could count on her. Her husband I honestly don't care for all that much but DH has been friends with him since they were kids. My whole world collapsed and I have been struggling to rebuild it. Now I am being abandoned by people I care about because of it.

At least I have my husband going through this with me. Thank God (or the universe or whatever is out there) that I still have him.

I'm so sorry, whatififly.

The same happened to me with my best friend of over 40 years. I pushed back at some BoM apologetics he was sending me and I got called all kinds of horrible names for not seeing it his way. Repeated personal attacks over the next week or two, even though I never once attacked him personally or made a derogatory comment to him, but some how I was the bad guy.

Lesson learned: deep down inside most TBMs seem to know they're skating on thin ice and any criticism of anything within their realm of belief is taken as devil-inspired personal attack. It terrifies them. They have to cut you off because they know there's a danger of them believing you and then everyone would treat them the same way they're treating you.

I hate it.

I’m sorry to hear that. One of my parents called me an apostate during his last visit-with a tone full of disgust. I didn’t call names or insult anyone. I had asked a simple question about how those fancy wood submarines could work? Anyway, it hurts and it does feel like your life is being torn apart but eventually you find like minded people and you care less and it gets easier. Hugs.

I’m so sorry. It’s especially hard when it’s someone we thought we could trust with our deepest feelings. When my wife and I visited DC two months ago, we met with a good friend from HS that I’ve kept in touch with (we actually joined the Army together many moons ago).

He didn’t know of my disaffection with the church, but I was out to family. My DW told me she thought he’d be safe to talk to and understanding, but I wasn’t brave enough to bring it up. He’s a bishop and talked about how people on the east coast are “intellectualizing” themselves out of the church, lamented a mutual friend leaving the church, and talked about the “tangible” experiences he’s had in the temple.

It was about two weeks later I came out on FB. I never heard a response from him.

This is why I’m horrified to talk to my friends about my faith crisis. I’m so sorry they weren’t able to embrace and accept you as you are.

Yeah, I lost a really close friend because I didn't think our priesthood leaders get magical inspiration for our lives and didn't think it was even their job to get inspiration for us.

And being NOM is the pits because I lost another close friend because...I don't know, maybe I didn't hate the church enough. So, people are touchy on both sides of this.

When things settle you find new friends without religious chips on their shoulders. But it is sad that people put religious beliefs above their relationships with others. Can you imagine Jesus pitching a fit and then never speaking to someone again over a difference in religious opinion? But "good Christians" yup, they will shun you like you have leprosy.

alas wrote: ↑Wed May 09, 2018 10:14 pm Can you imagine Jesus pitching a fit and then never speaking to someone again over a difference in religious opinion? But "good Christians" yup, they will shun you like you have leprosy.

It’s heartbreaking how true this is.

I don’t want friends who are only friends if I share their religious views. If that’s the case, it was never a relationship between them and me anyway, it was a relationship between them and the Church and me. If you take the Church out and the friendship collapses, you were in some kind of bizarre three-way relationship anyway.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 5:32 am I don’t want friends who are only friends if I share their religious views. If that’s the case, it was never a relationship between them and me anyway, it was a relationship between them and the Church and me. If you take the Church out and the friendship collapses, you were in some kind of bizarre three-way relationship anyway.

This is true. They were only ever conditional friendships, conditional upon us believing the same way they do. But it still hurts to find out that they were never really friends. In fact, I think that hurts more than losing friends in other ways, because you find out that it isn't you they like, but a reflection of themselves.

It sort of repeats the faith crisis. It is like finding out that the church is not what it claims and never was. You are finding out that this person you thought knew you and like you was only in it to have their own beliefs reflected back to them. It is flattering and safe to be around people who think just like you do. While real caring about another person accepts differences and likes the person anyway. But you just found out they do not care about you, all they cared about was having their opinion reinforced. And after years and years of what you thought was deep friendship, to find out it was never real is painful.

Loosing friends is painful!

How they reacted is a reflection on them and their own insecurities and has nothing to do with you. You are amazing!!

I'm so sorry you've lost close friends over the church. It is the most angering aspect of the church that they are trained from an early age to think less of people the moment they walk away.

And there's no good way to reconcile it in my head - I am the same person I was when I went, and if anything I am happier and more confident in myself without constantly thinking that I am somehow not living a worthy life.

Hopefully with some time you'll be able to work through this and continue that friendship. Cognitive dissonance is the worth thing, and it is one hell of a drug for people to avoid their own journey to discover the truth.

I lost the best friend I ever had because he saw me as an apostate for questioning one of the Brethren. No joke. I know the guy would be helpless emotionally without the church, and he couldn't handle the contagion. One day he just said "I'm breaking off our friendship". Never had the balls to tell me why. It sucked. But after a year or so the sting went away.

I just wanted to emphasize a point made earlier that is so true it merits repetition:

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu May 10, 2018 5:32 am it was a relationship between them and the Church and me. If you take the Church out and the friendship collapses, you were in some kind of bizarre three-way relationship anyway.

Right? This is unfortunately true about some Mormon marriages, too.

Boot to the Head!

Archimedes wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 7:27 am Boot to the Head!

Classic Cheech and Chong there.

All this sucks. I have strained a few relationships with subtle signs in conversation. All but my closest true friends and select family I appear as TBM as ever (akay maybe a bit edgy now I suppose).

I don't look forward to losing friends but in reality I have few close friends anyway. Mormons are so busy with large families and callings and overachieving to really he good friends anyway. I don't look forward to losing some, but there are always new ones.

My DW and family would break my heart. I would pretend to be anything to keep my wife and kids. It would be sad to lose parents and siblings but that would be their choice. I get the threat an apostate represents.

Arggggggh!

I am sorry to hear this, whatififly. As Not Buying It said, many friendships in life are not based on a two-way, personal relationship, but a three-way relationship between the two friends and a third-party institution or community. This happens not only in the church, but in pretty much any community. It is rare to have those true, deep friendships that are between two people, those friendships that don't dissolve when the third-party glue crumbles away.

I personally think I don't really have any friends like that in my life right now. So I try to be that kind of friend myself, the build my relationships in such a way that if the friend or family member needs me for any kind of support, they feel like I will be there without condition or judgement.

Give her some time..if she is a true friend, she will miss you. I mean surely there has to be another connection between good friends other than the church. Wait a little..I don't think it is over. Time will tell..and time will tell if she was a true friend or not. If she is not..then she is not also close to the Savior.

Thanks everyone, your support has been amazing. I'm still struggling with the loss but have been allowing myself to grieve and work through it. DH mentioned that my friend had a look of fear on her face when I addressed a few of the things in the church that I have struggled deeply with, such as polygamy and sexism in the temple. I do think this has a lot to do with her own fragile world view. I inadvertently threatened her testimony by expressing that I lost mine. Recognizing that is allowing me to feel compassion for her; the church is her life and she would likely feel very lost without it. Furthermore, it seems like her marriage is one of those where the couple has little in common except the church. I can understand why she reacted the way she did. I don't agree with it, but really, I pity her.

Margarita wrote: ↑Sat May 12, 2018 5:19 pm Give her some time..if she is a true friend, she will miss you. I mean surely there has to be another connection between good friends other than the church. Wait a little..I don't think it is over. Time will tell..and time will tell if she was a true friend or not. If she is not..then she is not also close to the Savior.

I hope this will work out with time. We were so close. She was my confidante with many sensitive subjects over the years. Unfortunately, I approached the wrong subject this time. I thought we had more in common than the church, but now I wonder.

I'm sorry. Sometimes losing a friend is as hard as losing a spouse. What would happened if you chose to send a card or letter, explaining that you understand the relationship has changed, but you still value her friendship, and remain open to interaction?

So sorry.

I recommend not trying to convince anybody of anything. Just don't bring it up. Don't make them choose between you and their entire belief and life structure. You will likely lose. Just stay respectful of their beliefs and remember that you likely had extremely black and white thinking like that at one time in your life as well. Whenever I even breach the subject with people who are very open and accepting I get surprised by the violent push back. Just don't talk about politics and religion.

That applies to even your spouse I think. You should let them know where you are, and you definitely get to choose what you believe and what you will do with your life, but so does your spouse.