Being a NOM pisses me off. What do I do?

[Arcturus]

Sorry if this is a jumbled post and doesn't make sense. I'm just pissed right now and need to vent and get some feedback.

So I'm relatively new to this group, but I've been reading things here for a long time and I've been looking into the Mormon cluster-**** of issues for nearly two years. I am completely gone in any belief that the church is true and although I allow for there to be good in the church, like any other church, the patriarchy and other cultural issues in the church make it a dangerous place IMO. If my objective function is to draw closer to God (I still believe in God), I believe that my function will be maximized elsewhere because Mormonism puts a ceiling on maximization due to all the issues.

My DW is right there with me - we believe the church isn't true. We plan to phase out someday. Our kids are really young. I work with a number of people from my ward and my wife's whole social network is Mormon (we don't live in UT btw). I can't stand going to church anymore. I get angry every Sunday hearing the same old sh***y rhetoric. My ass hurts sitting on a hard piano bench for 2 hours, playing the piano for primary. I can't stand to observe the indoctrination in the primary as week after week, the teachers talk about Joseph Smith and modern prophets and Jesus rarely is talked about. My weekly participation in Mormonism sends me back to the NOM echo chamber where I just get angry reading about all the issues. I'm on the FaceBook ATF group and I read sad stories of people getting hurt by the church. And it pisses me off.

My goal is to become indifferent towards Mormonism. And I question whether that's possible if I continue being a NOM. Am I just going through a phase and need to calm down? How can I be indifferent and "active" in Mormonism when all I hear is s*** every Sunday. Do I manage it? Or do I walk away? Would love to get insight from other people here.

My wife doesn't want to leave yet. She doesn't want to traumatize all her friends and she's much more comfortable living in the grey than I am. I imagine that's due to personalities and the fact that we were raised in diametric households. To conclude, she doesn't believe in the rip the bandaid off approach. But my sanity is suffering right now. What do you think I should do? And this isn't a one-time thing. This is a persistent experience I get week after week and I feel like I'm going to explode.

[oliver_denom]

My goal is to become indifferent towards Mormonism. And I question whether that's possible if I continue being a NOM. Am I just going through a phase and need to calm down? How can I be indifferent and "active" in Mormonism when all I hear is s*** every Sunday. Do I manage it? Or do I walk away? Would love to get insight from other people here.

My wife doesn't want to leave yet. She doesn't want to traumatize all her friends and she's much more comfortable living in the grey than I am. I imagine that's due to personalities and the fact that we were raised in diametric households. To conclude, she doesn't believe in the rip the bandaid off approach. But my sanity is suffering right now. What do you think I should do? And this isn't a one-time thing. This is a persistent experience I get week after week and I feel like I'm going to explode.

For me, time was really important. I wanted to gradually reduce my participation, start developing non-church hobbies, and making a new circle of friends. As I did these things, actions that used to seem impossible slowly became easy. For example, I never believed I could have the courage to turn down a calling, but I did. My wife thought she'd never be able to tell her parents, but she has. In my experience, the time is right when you feel good about making the next step. There's an element of fear each time, but there's a difference between a nervous or awkward step and one that is mortally terrifying. If even thinking about something makes you hyperventilate and have a panic attack, then don't do it. Take your time.

But it sounds like you're different, that you need to process things more in real time. One compromise could be that you just go ahead and step away, but do so quietly. Give them notice that you're going to resign your calling to give them time to find a replacement, but don't tell them why or justify your actions. A simple, "I appreciate your interest but this is just something I feel like I need to do right now." Stay pleasant, but walk away. This won't be a picnic for either you or your wife, but at least it's something to help relieve the stress. For you, the new stress will be about having to stay quiet about things you want to shout about. For your wife, it will be having to answer awkward questions and enduring gossip. That sucks, it REALLY sucks, but if you really can't take it anymore then I think that's better than suddenly exploding one day.

No matter what you do, don't forget that you're wife will be effected by your actions. Come up with a plan together and make sure you're on the same page. Where you aren't on the same page, then find a compromise. If no compromise is possible, then reconsider the status quo, maybe there are other ways to relieve the pain. The point here is that there's no need to panic and there's no need to rush off an do anything. You've got the time to do things right.

[Kishkumen]

Anyone on this board who knows me in real life can attest that I'm likely the least reliable source of advice.

My advice - Rip off the bandaid, let the wound heal in the fresh air and let the chips fall how they may. Don't spend too much time living in limbo. Don't make the same mistake I did of letting the rabbit hole consume my life. The longer you wait the more it will affect the kids. Our oldest was 4 when we left. He just turned 6 and still misses church some weeks and talks about. The longer you wait, the harder it will be.

We still have friends in our "ward" that are TBM and remain friends. Some not some much. Do live your life based on the acceptance of TBM's.

If you both have the same understanding that the church isn't what it claims to be but she attends for social reasons, then it's easy - you just stop going. Be honest and upfront with her, tell her why you don't desire to attend any more and be done. You're not making her do anything, she is free to do as she pleases and so are you. My bet is she will slow down after a little while. Use your newfound sunday freedom to sleep it, watch a game, catch up on chores, go to Costco, go on a hike, whatever. Just think of it as "Arcturus Time" to recharge some batteries instead of being drained on a pew bench.

[IT_Veteran]

I don't know Kishkumen in real life so I can freely attest to the wisdom of this advice. I actually took that approach while my wife was still TBM and, while hard, I'm glad I did it. It eliminated all of the questions from ward members about where I've been lately, how they've missed me, etc. Parents and family were sad but (mostly) understanding. It was painful, but the pain resolved pretty quickly. I personally don't think it was any more painful than going to church every week and dealing with the emotions of that.

Not gonna lie though, it took me a while to get there. I told my bishop I didn't have a testimony of anything anymore and I was going to try and regain it, he left me as the EQP for almost another year. When he finally released me, he waited about three weeks before extending another calling (one which wouldn't require me to testify of anything). I gave him all the reasons I couldn't do it right now, (school, work, other work, family, etc) and he told me he wouldn't consider that turning down the calling, but that he would put it on hold for a few months until I graduated. A few months later I emailed him and let him know I was leaving the church - after I told my wife and kids and emailed our immediate families.

If your wife is on board with, at least, not believing the truth claims of the church, you're a step further than many of us were or are currently. My wife is there for most of the truth claims, but still attends for many of the same reasons your wife does. It's not an easy thing to let go of, some may stay NOM for the foreseeable future.

[2bizE]

Arcturus,
I sympathize with you. I am in a similar spot. I go to church on occasion and cannot stand the rhetoric. I am very unhappy at church. My wife is a TBM. I think my wife is like many TBM wives in that she does not know the gospel. She doesn’t study much. She reads Ensign articles sometimes but that is about it. The Mormon gospel doesn’t bother her because she is not tied to the gospel. She is tied to the friendships and social aspects. For her, going to church is about talking with the ladies. For me, it is about learning the doctrine, and now as a NOM trying to not let my blood pressure get too high.
You are in a better place because your wife knows the church is not true.
My advice is that as your children get older, it becomes increasingly difficult to leave.

[GoodBoy]

I'm sure you have read about the different stages of faith. I'm not sure that those are real, but basically the most advanced stage of faith involves a huge amount of tolerance to letting people spout off nonsense that they "know" is true. Some people are actually pretty tolerant and can just sit there quietly while this is going on. I'm not saying this is something you ought to work towards, just an observation. It helps me to realize I was just like all of the other TBMs at church for most of my life... which makes it easier for me to be compassionate and understanding.

If it makes you crazy, just stop going to church. If you are going to church for social reasons, then spend your time in the hallways getting the social interaction that you came there for, and stay out of classrooms where you know people are going to be saying crazy stuff with conviction.

[Corsair]

You have, I think, accurately hinted at some of the steps you still need to take. Having your entire social group be comprised of Mormons makes this the transition really difficult. They are always keeping in ecclesiastic contact with you. As Michael Corleone accurately describes:

Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in

If you truly want to transition away, you need to find something to replace your community. It's probably easier if you move, but it can be done if you stay. Finding a new group of friend is very difficult, and that's why fellowshipping newly baptized converts is so emphasized in the LDS church. You could actually join a different church and hope that their fellowship does the same. This is a reasonable strategy for many people.

There are other people in transition. Many of these groups have registered on Mormon Spectrum and would welcome you in your level of faith or unbelief. Meetup is another resource for finding a group doing interesting things. It has no connection with the LDS church or any church at all and simply caters to common interests.

What else could you plan to do with your new Second Saturday? With young children there are quite a few easy activities that might appeal to them. Look up every possible museum, park, and activity center around you and combine that with something fun for them like lunch at McDonalds. Having a picnic and hike in the woods is also a good way to do things with them.

You don't have to get it right; you just have to get it started. Make a simple plan with your wife then tell your bishop that you have had some changes in your life and will no longer be attending your ward. Don't give reasons and make sure they understand that this is not up for negotiation. Your children will be resilient and you will quickly learn who are actual friends in your ward and not just artificial ward acquaintances. If you and your wife can be reasonably united in an exit then the whole process will be rather more enjoyable than you would expect.

[Red Ryder]

You need to work on your replacement plan!

Start making alternative plans that pull you out of the chapel and into new family activities.

Remember, there's a large population of members that have figured out how to be absent from church without going through the faith crisis. They're simply inactive!

Edited to add: Doh! What Corsair said!!

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

I decided that staying 3 hours for church sucks and used my youngest kids nap time as a get out of last 2 hours free time. Sacrament is sometimes really hard to stomach, but I feel an obligation to help my wife with small wiggly kids on the bench for at least that one hour. Someday I hope to be free of all of it.

[RubinHighlander]

Anyone on this board who knows me in real life can attest that I'm likely the least reliable source of advice.

My advice - Rip off the bandaid, let the wound heal in the fresh air and let the chips fall how they may. Don't spend too much time living in limbo. Don't make the same mistake I did of letting the rabbit hole consume my life. The longer you wait the more it will affect the kids. Our oldest was 4 when we left. He just turned 6 and still misses church some weeks and talks about. The longer you wait, the harder it will be.

If your DW is in the same place as you, I'm totally with Kish on this one. If you try to fade out you'll just end up on the project list and they won't leave you alone. There are lots of good samples of emails/letters here on NOM that can help you formulate the message in a non-confrontational angry way to help you make it clear with your leaders you are done. Why make yourself miserable? There's so much happiness and feeling of freedom out there ready for your taking! Carpe deim bro!

My DW and I very much love our Sundays now, relaxing at home or out exploring and enjoying life. Our marriage is so much better now and our time with our kids is real and meaningful and fun. Don't submit your kids to that crap anymore! Yes, there will be casualties, but all you owe them is a short and sincere explanation that you simply can't, in good conscience, believe it anymore and it does not make you happy. No need for any diatribe of details, just to the point and that it was difficult decision, based on years of care study and consideration.

[alas]

A lot of people try the slow fade, thinking it won't shock their friends and trigger activation efforts. But at some point, your friends are going to notice and either assume you are apostate and shun you or they are going to ask what is wrong? So, the slow fade just prolongs the agony. It doesn't really keep friendships intact because your friends are going to notice when you only show up occasionally. Then they will either accept you where you are and stay friends, or they will do as 90% of Mormon relationships go, and just not remember you exist as soon as you are not right there in church.

So, might as well just prepare an answer in your head for people who ask, then inform the bishop that you will not be attending and that, no, there is nothing that will change your mind. Then stop. Why not cut the dog's tail off all at once instead of one inch a month?

If you are that miserable attending, then you need to stop going. Your wife can keep going until she feels ready to quit, but when you come home every week upset and angry, it just is not worth trying the slow fade.

But then, I suppose I am a rip the bandaid off kind of person---see when I was a kid there was no such thing as hypoallergenic band aids, and I didn't even know I was allergic because I always ripped the bandage off....about the time it srarted itching. As an adult, I had surgery and couldn't rip the bandage off and when my skin under the bandage blistered, that was when we figured out I was alergic. My point here is that some people need to keep a bandage on, but some people need to rip them off, or it actually complicates the injury with blisters.

[Arcturus]

Thank you everyone for the kind feedback. There was a lot of wisdom provided. Another factor that may be contributing to my growing and persistent animosity towards church is I'm the organist and play the piano in the primary, so I feel obligated to attend church every Sunday and I'm not the type to just not show up and let people handle it. But that's definitely the starting point to relieving the some of the stress of being a NOM.

[glass shelf]

Anyone on this board who knows me in real life can attest that I'm likely the least reliable source of advice.

My advice - Rip off the bandaid, let the wound heal in the fresh air and let the chips fall how they may. Don't spend too much time living in limbo. Don't make the same mistake I did of letting the rabbit hole consume my life. The longer you wait the more it will affect the kids. Our oldest was 4 when we left. He just turned 6 and still misses church some weeks and talks about. The longer you wait, the harder it will be.

As a bandaid ripper, I agree. My oldest kid was 11 when we left. 3.5 years later, all of my kids are fine and happy with where they are. They're picking their own activities and their own friends. I was (age-appropriately) honest with them about my reasons for leaving, and I think it's served us all very well. My two oldest children are very science-oriented which probably also helps. My younger two don't really remember much about being Mormons. My daughter (who is 9) was in shock last week when I mentioned that I never went shopping on a Sunday until 3.5 years ago.

None of my kids miss church, but we don't live in a heavily LDS-populated area. We also intentionally do fun family things on Sundays most weeks. Those are probably all factors in that.

In hindsight, i'd had a fully loaded shelf for years, but it was less than two months from the first time I ever asked myself, "Is this possibly not true?" until I was 100% done and out.

[LucyHoneychurch]

I was a bandaid-ripper, and it can work if you and your spouse are truly united. My advice is to not get into your issues about the church with TBM's. You don't need to make a big social media announcement. Go quietly and deal with people in clusters (ie family) or one-on-one. And be ready to face a lot of big reactions from TBM friends and family. It helps to plan some general, kind responses that are matter-of-fact, compassionate, and not defensive. It will feel like "us vs. them" for a while, and remedying that in your own mind as soon as possible is key to your peace. Prepare yourself and your family for the potential social fall-out by building new social networks. You have to be pretty emotionally resilient to be a bandaid-ripper. You get all the reactions and consequences in one lump sum. But you also get to start life on your own terms immediately, and that is the main benefit, in my eyes. Best of luck, whichever route you choose.

[moksha]

No matter what you decide, it is helpful to approach life with some serenity. Why? Because there are always situations in life that will piss you off and anger is harder to bear than a sense of tranquility. If something gets your goat at church you do not have to touch it or even laugh at it. Just think of something pleasant and remind yourself that this is your narrative and not whatever it is that is pissing you off at that moment. Your wife's overall level of comfort is probably more important than any momentary discomfort on your part.

Breath deep then turn your head and cough.

[TestimonyLost]

I'd just add that time will help. For all the pain the church still causes me (see recent whine posts if you want more detail), I'm still in a better spot today than I was a few years ago. I'm not at peace with my situation but I have come to peace with the fact that the church isn't true. And hell, you and your spouse are much closer in your faith than a lot of folks on here so I think that will be to your advantage in the long run.

And when you need to vent about the insanity of it all, come talk to us!

[lightbulb]

If you are lucky enough to have your wife on board and you have young children you should be actively seeking a new community. Dealing with teenagers in a half-in-half out situation is way more painful than anything you are feeling now. Find something that you and your wife can agree on and give your kids a solid foundation to get them through their teenage years. That’s my two cents.

[achilles]

I'm going to give you a piece of advice worth about as much as it costs.

I think you need to stop attending. And it probably needs to be sudden. Play the piano and organ one more Sunday, and tell them you're stepping away. There is always somebody who can play. I promise. Mormons are great at hiding their talents. Besides, that's not your job after you resign the calling.

You don't have to tell anyone anything about your reasons for not believing anymore and not being happy in church. All they need to know (including and especially the bishop) is that you're done. Period. They will make up their own reasons anyway, and ones they think they can either fix or blame YOU for. Now this solution will have to involve your wife because she will get needled about it. If she agrees that it's best for you to step away, it would be good to practice a response.

Q. Why isn't Arcturus coming to church anymore?
A. You'll have to ask him.

Brainstorm five different ways to say it, such as "You'll have to talk to him about it." "I don't know, you should just go straight the the horse's mouth", etc. Then have a subject changer ready. She may have to use all of these methods in the same conversation. Chances are most people won't bother to ask you. The ones who do, you can handle with "I'm just done. That's all there is to it." Be matter of fact and emphasize the finality of your decision.

It's tempting to want to share all the things that you've discovered, but it's the kind of stuff that people won't see until they're ready, anyway.

Now your wife will become the pittied one, the project wife. Is she ready for this? Does she know that your different attitudes toward the church will necessitate different solutions for each person? Maybe your ultimate path is the same, but until then it may diverge.

Now all this is coming from a single guy who just stepped away and really didn't experience all the pressures you are. I can tell you though, you don't want to blow up and make a huge mess when you could be wise about it.