NOM

For your consideration.

The new Radio Free Mormon podcast covers some of the things the LDS Church doesn't want you to know are in the BYU Police reports.

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... al-update/

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Of all the issues edging me towards resignation from this church, this business of covering for Mr Joseph is the most damning.

There is no justification for the way officials for our church have acted towards this victim and the long term propping up of this sexual predator.

Even before your “nails in the coffin” detailed exposure of how complicit the church is in this whole “nasty affair”, it smelled strongly of corruption.

Thank you for being persistent and giving us the facts.

Great report Consiglieri! Your work with this is so important and so valuable in preventing abuse and holding those in power responsible. I whole-heartedly agree with your very public way of following up on this. I think it holds people's interest and brings additional attention to it, which is so important.

I think what this shows some very disturbing things about the church and it's power structure.
1) They are not really interested in the truth.
2) They deliberately hide true information. They will even break the law to do so.
3) They are willing to allow people to get profoundly hurt, or at least continue to get hurt, in order to protect themselves and their reputation.
4) They aren't interested in holding perpetrators accountable if said perpetrators are within the leadership structure (a good-old-boy).

Although you would know better than me, I think that there is sufficient evidence to bring a civil, if not criminal, lawsuit against the LDS church. History has shown that these types of lawsuits, or even the threat of them, profoundly changes their behavior and decision making processes.

Thanks again!

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:12 am I think what this shows some very disturbing things about the church and it's power structure.
1) They are not really interested in the truth.
2) They deliberately hide true information. They will even break the law to do so.
3) They are willing to allow people to get profoundly hurt, or at least continue to get hurt, in order to protect themselves and their reputation.
4) They aren't interested in holding perpetrators accountable if said perpetrators are within the leadership structure (a good-old-boy).

This beautifully sums up all the problems with the church, be they historical or modern.

mooseman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:56 am

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:12 am I think what this shows some very disturbing things about the church and it's power structure.
1) They are not really interested in the truth.
2) They deliberately hide true information. They will even break the law to do so.
3) They are willing to allow people to get profoundly hurt, or at least continue to get hurt, in order to protect themselves and their reputation.
4) They aren't interested in holding perpetrators accountable if said perpetrators are within the leadership structure (a good-old-boy).

This beautifully sums up all the problems with the church, be they historical or modern.

We need to break the habit of Lying for the Lord because it makes us liars and God would find such repeated behavior to be reprehensible. The Dallin Oaks position that the Church should never apologize or repent will keep this Lying for the Lord habit from ever being resolved.

I finished the podcast today and some questions.

If a GRAMA request is not fulfilled as teh law requires, what is the process of appeal? If it involved getting a judge to order records be release, how will the LDS church play on the Utah legal system? Is there a possibility that a sympathetic judge will uphold the current redaction?

Next, how does a GRAMA apply to a private entity?

In my experience, FOI requests only apply to government entities. Does BYUPD actually qualify as a police force or as a private security force? Since they are hired on behalf on BYU, a private university. I would think they would fall under the category of private security, not Police since they do not actually report to any local, state, or federal government entity. Instead they report to what is ultimately LDS Inc. If they are not an actual government entity, does GRAMA actually apply to them? Also if they are not an actual government entity, what actual enforcement power do they have outside of BYU owned property?

No Tof wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:05 am Thank you for being persistent and giving us the facts.

Amen and amen!

moksha wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:00 pm

mooseman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:56 am

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:12 am I think what this shows some very disturbing things about the church and it's power structure.
1) They are not really interested in the truth.
2) They deliberately hide true information. They will even break the law to do so.
3) They are willing to allow people to get profoundly hurt, or at least continue to get hurt, in order to protect themselves and their reputation.
4) They aren't interested in holding perpetrators accountable if said perpetrators are within the leadership structure (a good-old-boy).

This beautifully sums up all the problems with the church, be they historical or modern.

We need to break the habit of Lying for the Lord because it makes us liars and God would find such repeated behavior to be reprehensible. The Dallin Oaks position that the Church should never apologize or repent will keep this Lying for the Lord habit from ever being resolved.

This talk from Oaks is one of the most immoral I have ever heard. The church never apologizes, which directly implies the church never makes a mistake, which implies ALL decisions made by the church are from Christ WHO is perfect. And again by implication, church decisions are perfect and always right, so they never need to apologize. What a nice chiasmus from hell.

What a big pile of horse sh!t.

In your analysis, replace "the Church" with "Enron" circa 2001:

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:12 amI think what this shows some very disturbing things about Enron and its power structure.
1) They are not really interested in the truth.
2) They deliberately hide true information. They will even break the law to do so.
3) They are willing to allow people to get profoundly hurt, or at least continue to get hurt, in order to protect themselves and their reputation.
4) They aren't interested in holding perpetrators accountable if said perpetrators are within the leadership structure (a good-old-boy).

You would expect this sort of behavior from the leadership of a large Corporation caught doing something illegal.