NOM

So in Primary last Sunday they announced to us lowly teachers that they were having a breakfast in a couple of weeks to thank us and let us know that they appreciate us. Then they immediately destroyed any goodwill they might have bought with that announcement by telling us it was also a mandatory meeting to announce new policy changes. Somehow I don’t feel appreciated.

ANYWAY - word on the street is that the policy changes will be a requirement for two adult teachers in any class with 18 and younger children in it. Which is kind of dumb, because that’s just common sense, what kind of an organization had to finally figure out in 2018 leaving children alone with an adult unsupervised is a bad idea? I mean, it’s been the policy in Primary for a while, but it should have been the policy everywhere all the time. God is pretty damn careless with his members’ children.

So is this just in my ward, just in my stake, or is this Church-wide? And what could possibly have inspired such a policy? And why in the name of all that is holy haven’t they figured out they need to fix their “worthiness interview” problem too while they are at it?

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:48 pm requirement for two adult teachers in any class with 18 and younger children in it

Wait, WTH?! This was not already a church wide requirement? I thought this was status quo for years now! I guess it was just a stake level thing?

If they are just now brining this down as a requirement from the COB then I have no nice appropriate words to say here about how much more disgusted I am with the LDS church! How much more blatant can the evidence get that those COBlers are not inspired or get any revelation from a heavenly father. But then, if there is a God and he's the one talked about in the BOM, then I can't really get over how he let innocent men, women and children die by the hand of evil men both in fires and by the sword, just so he could have legit judgment over their evil deeds.

My understanding is this:

2 people were mandatory if one was a man.
Husband + Wife = OK
1 Man + 1 Man = OK
1 Woman = OK

Now it's mandatory to have 2 people:
Husband + Wife = OK
1 Man + 1 Man = OK (if not gay lovers)
1 Woman + 1 Woman = OK (if not gay)

Not ok:
1 Man
1 Woman
1 Man + 1 Woman (not married to each other)

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm My understanding is this:

2 people were mandatory if one was a man.
Husband + Wife = OK
1 Man + 1 Man = OK
1 Woman = OK

Now it's mandatory to have 2 people:
Husband + Wife = OK
1 Man + 1 Man = OK (if not gay lovers)
1 Woman + 1 Woman = OK (if not gay)

Not ok:
1 Man
1 Woman
1 Man + 1 Woman (not married to each other)

This is how it has been practiced in my wards forever. When I was called to primary to teach and didn't have a co-teacher, it was also acceptable to block the door open.

IT_Veteran wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:30 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm My understanding is this:

2 people were mandatory if one was a man.
Husband + Wife = OK
1 Man + 1 Man = OK
1 Woman = OK

Now it's mandatory to have 2 people:
Husband + Wife = OK
1 Man + 1 Man = OK (if not gay lovers)
1 Woman + 1 Woman = OK (if not gay)

Not ok:
1 Man
1 Woman
1 Man + 1 Woman (not married to each other)

This is how it has been practiced in my wards forever. When I was called to primary to teach and didn't have a co-teacher, it was also acceptable to block the door open.

The big problem with it is that no one wants to be in Primary. Have you ever taught primary and tried to get a sub? I don't see how they are going to staff this.

Several years ago our stake was going to have two people for every class, but they simply couldn't make it work - and this in healthy, active ward. So one woman per class became okay.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:44 pm The big problem with it is that no one wants to be in Primary. Have you ever taught primary and tried to get a sub? I don't see how they are going to staff this.

Several years ago our stake was going to have two people for every class, but they simply couldn't make it work - and this in healthy, active ward. So one woman per class became okay.

They could combine two separate priesthood quorums into one? That would free up 4 adult males from the condemned quorum and then maybe institute an Kenyan exchange member program to bring in the rest. Only the best and brightest from Africa willing to pay tithing could come over to aid in teaching primary. I bet that was the real reason Nelson was there recently!

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:44 pm

IT_Veteran wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:30 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:27 pm My understanding is this:

2 people were mandatory if one was a man.
Husband + Wife = OK
1 Man + 1 Man = OK
1 Woman = OK

Now it's mandatory to have 2 people:
Husband + Wife = OK
1 Man + 1 Man = OK (if not gay lovers)
1 Woman + 1 Woman = OK (if not gay)

Not ok:
1 Man
1 Woman
1 Man + 1 Woman (not married to each other)

This is how it has been practiced in my wards forever. When I was called to primary to teach and didn't have a co-teacher, it was also acceptable to block the door open.

The big problem with it is that no one wants to be in Primary. Have you ever taught primary and tried to get a sub? I don't see how they are going to staff this.

Several years ago our stake was going to have two people for every class, but they simply couldn't make it work - and this in healthy, active ward. So one woman per class became okay.

If they have two per class, this opens the door for the slackers (or the ones who understandably hate primary) to leave it all to the other person. I stupidly signed up to be on the sub list one year, and got I got tagged to sub during the winter holiday break. I was assured the class would not even be full, because holidays. Oh no, not the case. This was a group of very difficult five-year-olds, and ALL of them were in town for the holidays (oh goodie!). Not only that, several of them had cousins in town to visit & they brought those little darlings with them. It was horrible.

I was instructed not to leave the room until all parents showed up (which makes sense). Well, the bell rang, last hour, and NOBODY came to the door. By this time, the kids were climbing out of their skins. They kept trying to open the door and escape (no window, and the room was in a remote area off the stage), so I was busy playing door warden. I finally opened the door (battling the kids to get back away from it and not leave the room) and the damned mothers were down in the hallway chattering away. I wanted to kill them.

Never again. First thing I did after that Hour in Hell was to tell them to take me off the sub list. Sorry, people. My kids are grown & I've done my time.

Thoughts from a former primary president---Have fun staffing that.

Primary callings are so hard to fill. I know. When I wasn't in the RSP, I was in the PP or teaching primary. Once, I had lined up my own sub because I didn't want to teach primary when I was 39 weeks pregnant. Someone else called me to see if I could take their class because they heard "I was going to be available." I'm proud to say that was one of the times when I had a backbone and said no. No worries, though, I was back teaching that class by the time my baby was 2 weeks old. So many things I'd do differently if I knew what I know now.

glass shelf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:11 pm Thoughts from a former primary president---Have fun staffing that.

Primary callings are so hard to fill. I know. When I wasn't in the RSP, I was in the PP or teaching primary. Once, I had lined up my own sub because I didn't want to teach primary when I was 39 weeks pregnant. Someone else called me to see if I could take their class because they heard "I was going to be available." I'm proud to say that was one of the times when I had a backbone and said no. No worries, though, I was back teaching that class by the time my baby was 2 weeks old. So many things I'd do differently if I knew what I know now.

Someone asked you to sub when you were 39 weeks pregnant? Tell me this isn't a brainwashed, uncaring cult. I also can't see going back into any calling only two weeks after giving birth. Of course, the men who run the church don't get any of that. And the "focus is on the family", so it's all good.

Good for you, for realizing you could say no. Downvote for whomever the idiot is who asked you to sub.

Silver Girl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:49 pm

glass shelf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:11 pm Thoughts from a former primary president---Have fun staffing that.

Primary callings are so hard to fill. I know. When I wasn't in the RSP, I was in the PP or teaching primary. Once, I had lined up my own sub because I didn't want to teach primary when I was 39 weeks pregnant. Someone else called me to see if I could take their class because they heard "I was going to be available." I'm proud to say that was one of the times when I had a backbone and said no. No worries, though, I was back teaching that class by the time my baby was 2 weeks old. So many things I'd do differently if I knew what I know now.

Someone asked you to sub when you were 39 weeks pregnant? Tell me this isn't a brainwashed, uncaring cult. I also can't see going back into any calling only two weeks after giving birth. Of course, the men who run the church don't get any of that. And the "focus is on the family", so it's all good.

Good for you, for realizing you could say no. Downvote for whomever the idiot is who asked you to sub.

Sadly, showing up to teach primary with a tiny baby was less irritating and frustrating than having to find a sub to teach it for me. In hindsight, it seems like the least a ward could do to support a woman who just gave birth was taking care of lining up the subs, but what do I know? I guess I'd been the person left holding the bag so many times when someone just didn't show for primary and I had to deal with covering for them that I didn't want to do that to anyone else.

glass shelf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Silver Girl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:49 pm

glass shelf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:11 pm Thoughts from a former primary president---Have fun staffing that.

Primary callings are so hard to fill. I know. When I wasn't in the RSP, I was in the PP or teaching primary. Once, I had lined up my own sub because I didn't want to teach primary when I was 39 weeks pregnant. Someone else called me to see if I could take their class because they heard "I was going to be available." I'm proud to say that was one of the times when I had a backbone and said no. No worries, though, I was back teaching that class by the time my baby was 2 weeks old. So many things I'd do differently if I knew what I know now.

Someone asked you to sub when you were 39 weeks pregnant? Tell me this isn't a brainwashed, uncaring cult. I also can't see going back into any calling only two weeks after giving birth. Of course, the men who run the church don't get any of that. And the "focus is on the family", so it's all good.

Good for you, for realizing you could say no. Downvote for whomever the idiot is who asked you to sub.

Sadly, showing up to teach primary with a tiny baby was less irritating and frustrating than having to find a sub to teach it for me. In hindsight, it seems like the least a ward could do to support a woman who just gave birth was taking care of lining up the subs, but what do I know? I guess I'd been the person left holding the bag so many times when someone just didn't show for primary and I had to deal with covering for them that I didn't want to do that to anyone else.

I was primary president in a married student ward. 46 nursery, 31 sunbeams, 23 star A, 10 star B, and one Cub Scout. With classes that size, we could not combine them for a teacher no show, and we could not split them smaller because there were nor enough classrooms. And every week, one or two teachers didn't show up, no attempt to notify us or get a sub. The primary is staffed from the left overs after all the other organization get their people. So, primary has the least qualified, the flakyest, most irresponsible. It was a rather large ward, and most of the women worked supporting their husband while he finished his degree, and were pregnant. We were lucky to get one victim....um, teacher per class. And every week, I ended up teaching one class while my (only) counselor took another because of a teacher no show. So, yeah, good luck staffing two teachers per class. With another teacher who is supposed to be there, it just gives the second teacher an excuse to no show because some one else will be there.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:12 pm

glass shelf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:06 pm

Silver Girl wrote: ↑Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:49 pm

Someone asked you to sub when you were 39 weeks pregnant? Tell me this isn't a brainwashed, uncaring cult. I also can't see going back into any calling only two weeks after giving birth. Of course, the men who run the church don't get any of that. And the "focus is on the family", so it's all good.

Good for you, for realizing you could say no. Downvote for whomever the idiot is who asked you to sub.

Sadly, showing up to teach primary with a tiny baby was less irritating and frustrating than having to find a sub to teach it for me. In hindsight, it seems like the least a ward could do to support a woman who just gave birth was taking care of lining up the subs, but what do I know? I guess I'd been the person left holding the bag so many times when someone just didn't show for primary and I had to deal with covering for them that I didn't want to do that to anyone else.

I was primary president in a married student ward. 46 nursery, 31 sunbeams, 23 star A, 10 star B, and one Cub Scout. With classes that size, we could not combine them for a teacher no show, and we could not split them smaller because there were nor enough classrooms. And every week, one or two teachers didn't show up, no attempt to notify us or get a sub. The primary is staffed from the left overs after all the other organization get their people. So, primary has the least qualified, the flakyest, most irresponsible. It was a rather large ward, and most of the women worked supporting their husband while he finished his degree, and were pregnant. We were lucky to get one victim....um, teacher per class. And every week, I ended up teaching one class while my (only) counselor took another because of a teacher no show. So, yeah, good luck staffing two teachers per class. With another teacher who is supposed to be there, it just gives the second teacher an excuse to no show because some one else will be there.

Primary teachers mostly consist of suckers who won’t say no and people they can’t figure out what else to do with. It’s disheartening to see how little thought is usually put into who teaches the children of the Church, and whether they are a good fit for it.

This will put pressure on Primary presidencies to find teachers, but the Brethren don’t care, they don’t ever see the problems at that level. It will put a great deal of stress on Bishops and Primary presidents though. Much of the problem would go away if they would cut it down to a 2 hour block, you’d have fewer teachers you have to call. But there’s no way the Brethren are ever giving up on that third hour of indoctrination.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:12 am This will put pressure on Primary presidencies to find teachers, but the Brethren don’t care, they don’t ever see the problems at that level. It will put a great deal of stress on Bishops and Primary presidents though. Much of the problem would go away if they would cut it down to a 2 hour block, you’d have fewer teachers you have to call. But there’s no way the Brethren are ever giving up on that third hour of indoctrination.

NBI, Bingo! The leaders at the top don't care how this is executed or about making changes so this will actually work. They are scrambling to protect their increasingly bad image. And yes, a 2 hour block makes the most sense, and would actually help the church a TON. I believe that one reason so many leave after learning about the history is sheer burnout from 3 hours of church every Sunday. And not 3 hours of meaningful worship, but 3 hours of guilt trips, 1/2 baked truths, and repeated lessons over and over and over and over and over and over............

Rumors around here suggest a 2 hour block would mean 40 minutes of SM, 40 minutes of SS, and 40 minutes of EQ/RS.

That leaves the same number of teachers with less time to teach.

I'm voting for SM only if I have to attend a church.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:02 am Rumors around here suggest a 2 hour block would mean 40 minutes of SM, 40 minutes of SS, and 40 minutes of EQ/RS.

That leaves the same number of teachers with less time to teach.

I'm voting for SM only if I have to attend a church.

Yeah, that would be the same number of teachers. It's a moot point though, the Brethren are trending towards being more controlling these days rather than less, we'll be lucky if they don't add an hour to the three hour block.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:07 am
Yeah, that would be the same number of teachers. It's a moot point though, the Brethren are trending towards being more controlling these days rather than less, we'll be lucky if they don't add an hour to the three hour block.

If they did, you'd only hear how inspired a decision it was and how all your TBM family and friends are grateful for the opportunity to spend more time focusing on the gospel.

My dear, believing wife plays piano in Primay and honestly enjoys doing that for two hours in church. But recently, I literally had a Relief Society sister ask me how my wife was doing and wondering what made her stop coming to church. This sister was relieved that my wife was in Primary and was not "offended" or something equally silly. The irony was deep that day.

Part of the problem with staffing Primary is that it ties up a large fraction of the ward for two hours in a situation that few people honestly enjoy doing. At the very least, change it to the model with teenagers where they have a Sunday School teacher in second hour and a different YM/YW teacher in third hour. This would go a long way to preventing people from making connections with other adults in Sunday School, Priesthood, and Relief Society. Having fewer adults babysitting during Singing Time and Sharing Time could also free up people. The Nursery class might benefit from tag team teaching.

Corsair wrote: ↑Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:41 am My dear, believing wife plays piano in Primay and honestly enjoys doing that for two hours in church. But recently, I literally had a Relief Society sister ask me how my wife was doing and wondering what made her stop coming to church. This sister was relieved that my wife was in Primary and was not "offended" or something equally silly. The irony was deep that day.

Part of the problem with staffing Primary is that it ties up a large fraction of the ward for two hours in a situation that few people honestly enjoy doing. At the very least, change it to the model with teenagers where they have a Sunday School teacher in second hour and a different YM/YW teacher in third hour. This would go a long way to preventing people from making connections with other adults in Sunday School, Priesthood, and Relief Society. Having fewer adults babysitting during Singing Time and Sharing Time could also free up people. The Nursery class might benefit from tag team teaching.

Pity the poor couple who moves into a ward and immediately gets called to Primary - their chances of making friends and connections in the new ward are now pretty much zilch. Also, ever notice how seldom financially successful types get called to Primary? It’s been my experience that VPs and CEOs generally don’t get called to teach Primary.

You may think this is strange but I actually enjoyed serving in the Primary, especially the last few years I was involved. It was a lot better than going to adult classes and listening to all the annoying, disturbing comments there. Sharing time could be really annoying, though. The last couple of years my wife and I really enjoyed serving in Nursery together. It did kind of help us slip out, though. When the bishopric got concerned they decided to move us out of Nursery even though we were very reliable in serving our calling there and kept telling them they could leave us there. I'm sure they thought they needed to get me out where I could engage with other adults and improve my testimony. Two weeks of that and I realized I just couldn't take it anymore.

This new policy illustrates even further how leaders ignore real data and focus only on staffing the PH positions when they adjust boundaries. I am certain there's rarely any consideration to how many people are single moms, or the ratio of very young children to adults (and can limit the available people to be in nursery or primary). They don't care about anything but the PH.