NOM

I didn't want to thread jack MerrieMiss' threadbare garment post so thought I would start a new one.

This post is specifically for Graey and Slavereeno or anyone else that can relate to Graey's comment below.

Graey wrote:I feel the same as you when people mention having a TBM spouse, but then go on to describe how that spouse is totally cool (or at least indignantly accepting) of things like getting rid of garments, paying tithing on net or increase, or occasionally dropping WoW requirements. My own spouse would go ballistic; world war 3 would commence, and I might just lose my family in the process.

Guys, I was once in your shoes. Background, I would get up in the mornings and get dressed for work before the wife was up and skip wearing the G's. Then I would get home and quickly change into work out clothes (and subsequently not workout). I did this for a few weeks and she noticed the white load of laundry was light so I started tossing clean G's into the laundry. Then schedules changed so that she was getting up with me.

Sometimes I would take clothes to the laundry room and get dressed there. Other times I would try to time it right but revert to putting G's on. It's nearly impossible to hide underwear from a spouse and this was causing me severe anxiety. First, because my brain could no longer convince my legs to step into the polyester mesh bottoms. Second, because most Mormons (perhaps TBM women even more so) tend to associate wearing garments with marriage fidelity.

When you stop wearing temple garments there's a high chance she thinks your cheating! This is a huge dilemma that doesn't always end well if you suddenly go cold turkey. You have to poison the well slowly. Dilute the indoctrination over time. Deliver yourself from the garment shackles of shame!

Here's an effective strategy for getting out of your garments. This strategy is intended for the men of NOM but with a few tweaks can be just as effective for the ladies too. Just substitute vajayjay for balls and yeast infection for rash. You get the point.

1. Start scratching your balls. A lot. Then question if the polyester and sweat mixture is to blame.

2. Keep scratching your balls. Like all the time. Ask her to buy you some Lotrimin cream next time she goes grocery shopping or when your at Wal Green's on the way home from your Friday night date. Apply daily. Keep scratching and talking about your new rash that "just won't go away"!

3. In frustration, decide to wear normal underwear for "a day or two" to see what happens. Make sure this underwear is white. Tighty whitey's are ok but I highly suggest going out and buying some boxer briefs. On day 1, continue to scratch but maybe half the time. On day 2, don't scratch at all. Comment a few times that your rash seems to be getting better. Let your spouse know you plan to continue your "experiment" for another day or two for healing purposes. Continue to apply the Lotrimin aggressively so that you eventually use the whole tube over a 7 day period.

4. Continue for 4 more days wearing normal underwear. Reduce scratching down to nothing and continue on your happy man ways. During the moments you're getting ready for bed, stand in the mirror in your new found underwear and proudly extend your hips slightly forward so that your priesthood antenna is packaged just right for her to notice while she brushes her teeth.

5. On day 7 put the G's back on.

6. Day 8-9 start the scratching routine all over again. Make yourself absolutely miserable. Wake her up a few times in the middle of the night with your scratching noises. Be VERY careful so that you don't wake her up and she thinks your masturbating. If that happens, see Strategy #10: How to not get caught masturbating and what to do if you do.

7. Day 10 (in frustration) suggest buying new laundry detergent. Drag her to Costco and spend $100 on 5 different laundry detergents that you know she will hate the smell of. As you head to the register, pass the underwear isle and grab a 10 pack of your favorite color. Most men who implement this strategy choose black. Also grab a another large size tube of Lotrimin. Put the black underwear in your dresser drawer as soon as you get home. You will save it for later, trust the process.

8. Day 11, switch back to the normal underwear. Apply the Lotromin. Reduce the scratching. Focus on healing. Wash your polyester mesh garments using the new detergent. The most effective method is to wash only one pair in a large load, doubling the detergent, on hot. This will drive her crazy due to the inefficient load.

9. Day 12 - 14, continue to wear the normal underwear. Walk with swagger! Smile all the time. Whistle while you help her do the dishes. Make love as often as possible.

10. Day 15, switch back to the G's. Be miserable. Scratch your balls a lot. Complain. Complain. Complain. At this point she will suggest you go see a Doctor. Begrudgingly make an appointment.

11: Day 16, see the Doctor. Tell him you have a rash. He will suggest you wear loose boxers and send you home with a tube of Lotrimin. Return home and report that you have been ordered by the doctor to wear loose boxer shorts indefinitely.

I'm so glad I'm not married so that I can approach this on my own terms and not have to lie. The transition has been painless thus far. My balls are already thanking me. (I probably have a legitimate health reason anyway. I have been to a doctor to get it checked and it came back quickly despite getting prescription cream and using unscented detergent for my Gs) I get a little cold from only having 1 shirt (which is more comfortable anyway, so it's worth it), but I'll adjust. I'm a bit of a heater anyway.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:40 pm Here's an effective strategy for getting out of your garments. This strategy is intended for the men of NOM but with a few tweaks can be just as effective for the ladies too. Just substitute vajayjay for balls and yeast infection for rash. You get the point.

Oh my hell, I can't breathe! Now I have to tell people why I was laughing so hard.

The phrase "priesthood antenna" will always be with me now, and its going to make me laugh out loud at really inappropriate times..

If there are 8 other strategies for stuff i must have them.

You may not be an apostle but definitely a saint.

Saint Red

I think my old bag of garments are still sequestered to the top shelf in the closet but the idea of wearing them has not entered my thoughts for a couple of years. Thank the gods.

I will be anticipating with glee to hear of how your very creative plan will work for those caught with a garment wedgie of their own to deal with.

May the force be with you all.

Wow Red. Just WOW!

The lengths and gymnastics some of us have to go through, to change our underwear.

Since my wife is the only person who ever sees me in my underwear I don't really don't give them much thought. They're just underwear. If I can deal with seeing her in hers, she can make the same sacrifice. If I had some change of life that suddenly required lots of people to see my undies I might care more about it. I always pack normal undies when I travel, especially if I'm hiking or doing other things that required support and comfort. We are both in agreement that I am on my final temple recommend so it will be interesting to see if she keeps buying garments for me once I exceed my expiration date. I have never bought garments since we were married and she has never bought me heathen underwear, but somehow my drawer seems to have an equal mix of the celestial and the telestial.

I was not expecting a "trust the process" reference in the middle of that. Well done. It's actually a really good analogy.

I haven't worn garments in a couple years, but it was a process to get to that point. I can definitely empathize with Graey's comment. Before my disaffection, the garment symbolism was something I internalized to some extent, but it wasn't constantly on my mind. As I was transitioning and learning more and more history, the garments' symbolism felt much more acute. Every day I put them on, I was reminded of Joseph ripping off masonry to establish his own little secret circle. I don't think it was the only reason for the endowment, but I came to associate the garments with Joseph's efforts to maintain the secret of polygamy. I felt stuck between my repulsion for the new symbolism and not wanting to start "world war 3" with my wife. To my embarrassment, I resorted to many of the tactics Red describes, from switching to workout clothes, only wearing the bottoms to work during the summer, and washing garments that hadn't been worn to avoid laundry suspicion.

Eventually, my wife did start noticing, and it did result in some fights. She equated it with breaking my covenants. I asked her where I had covenanted to wear the garments in the temple. (It's never done explicitly.) But that type of back and forth wasn't really helpful. I explained how wearing the garments made me feel and what they represented to me. I think she realized how much angst it was causing me, but also got to a point, I think, where she thought I was pretty far gone with my beliefs and that the garments were perhaps too sacred for someone in my fallen state. She eventually came to peace with me not wearing them.

This transition is unpredictable with a TBM spouse. My wife's acceptance of me not wearing garments has not translated to other church areas like the WoW or church attendance. Also, when things get rough between us, the garment issue still occasionally pops up. Not that she wants me to wear them necessarily for her sake, but sadness that she's married to someone who doesn't want to wear them.

LOL, just getting to this now Red Ryder! This is gold!

I'm really curious about the other strategies. We know there are at least 10. We seek further light and knowledge!

shadow wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:30 am This transition is unpredictable with a TBM spouse. My wife's acceptance of me not wearing garments has not translated to other church areas like the WoW or church attendance. Also, when things get rough between us, the garment issue still occasionally pops up. Not that she wants me to wear them necessarily for her sake, but sadness that she's married to someone who doesn't want to wear them.

I can see myself in this same place one day, if I play my cards right. Thank you shadow.

This is great ! Also, it might work very well. Keep a good supply of Lotrimin on hand.

So funny! I have to remember the phrase priesthood antennae. It was hard for me to stop wearing garments. I took the covenants seriously and even as my belief began to wither away, I still felt supersticious about taking them off. I was legitimately afraid of what would happen if I did. The breaking point for me was when it clicked that garments started as a way to keep polygamy secret. Only those in the know about it wore them. Next it sunk in that the original meaning of "celestial" or "eternal" marriage originally just referred to polygamy. It was simple manipulation. The temple ceremony is about polygamy. My garments became a disgusting reminder of sexual manipulation and the subjugation of women in the name of religion. I stopped wearing them at that point.

DH was learning these things too and was losing his testimony as well. It was still hard for him when I stopped wearing the garments though- he equated them with our marriage commitment. After some major discussions he realized that I was rejecting the church- not our marriage- and he stopped wearing his too. Crazy what a huge deal it is just to switch underwear! I'm enjoying my newfound freedom but admittedly, I still get waves of terror sometimes thinking God will curse me or something. Weird, right?

OMG. I can't stop laughing. It is not only funny, but it is pure gold. This could work, and work well. No loving spouse would let you suffer more than a few weeks.

I just lost about 10lbs from laughing so hard. You can market this post and make a lot of money.

whatififly wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:09 pm So funny! I have to remember the phrase priesthood antennae. It was hard for me to stop wearing garments. I took the covenants seriously and even as my belief began to wither away, I still felt supersticious about taking them off. I was legitimately afraid of what would happen if I did. The breaking point for me was when it clicked that garments started as a way to keep polygamy secret. Only those in the know about it wore them. Next it sunk in that the original meaning of "celestial" or "eternal" marriage originally just referred to polygamy. It was simple manipulation. The temple ceremony is about polygamy. My garments became a disgusting reminder of sexual manipulation and the subjugation of women in the name of religion. I stopped wearing them at that point.

DH was learning these things too and was losing his testimony as well. It was still hard for him when I stopped wearing the garments though- he equated them with our marriage commitment. After some major discussions he realized that I was rejecting the church- not our marriage- and he stopped wearing his too. Crazy what a huge deal it is just to switch underwear! I'm enjoying my newfound freedom but admittedly, I still get waves of terror sometimes thinking God will curse me or something. Weird, right?

I had the same realization and breaking point. Garments became much more symbolic to me after the polygamy realization. It was just unfortunately a constant reminder of my repulsion with it all.

Aaaaahhh!!!! I needed a laugh like that (and I give wtfluff +1 for the NOTACOLT image). Seriously, a little laughter goes a long way. I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere about Red Ryder's BB gun too...

"Priesthood antenna". Can't get over it.

My actual story was a little bit like this. While still an active, participating NOM, I would tend to get underarm rashes from the fabric of the awful garment design and materials bunching all up under there. I'd skip the garment tops for a while and it would disappear. I'd go back to the tops and it would return. Finally I just gave up and abandoned the tops. I still kept wearing the bottoms for a while, till I finally gladly gave them up.

I didn't have any grand plan on how it do it in how many days, though.