NOM

I'm getting ready for my gospel doctrine lesson tomorrow on Joseph in Egypt. I don't follow the manual at all and pretty much just teach the humanist aspects of the stories however I want, but I usually at least read through the lesson manual out of curiosity for what kind of tripe they want you to teach. Anyway, tomorrow's lesson, Fruitful in the Land of My Affliction, has an "additional teaching idea" on "The Great Latter-day Joseph"—basically teaching that Smith was prophesied of all the way back in Genesis.

The sources for these prophecies?

• Joseph Smith Translation, Genesis 50:24-26. This is an insertion of like 15 extra verses between the KJV verses 24-26. The insertion talks all about a future seer named Joseph and all the great things he will do. Neither the original KJV nor any modern translation make even the slightest reference to anything in the added verses.

• 2 Nephi 3:5-15, again a bunch of nonsense that Smith wrote about himself.

I know there are other places Smith wrote himself in too. Sometimes you just have to throw your head back and laugh at the transparent con of it all, and cry that anyone still takes it seriously today.

Yeah, that was one of the things weighing on my shelf before it broke. Especially the lost words from Genesis.

Did the scribes miss a page? Was there any mention by latter OT writers who read it before it got deleted? Did God want to test our faith more by revealing these passages through the author, I mean the translator/restorer, than by revealing them in some other way. It occupied my brain while doing countless chores growing up on an Idaho farm. Probably lead to a few of my screw-ups.

Isaiah 11 is another prophecy where Joseph tried to interpret himself into OT scripture. See D&C 113.

I've done an extensive exegetical study on Isaiah 11 and the scripture works perfectly with Christ being the subject of the analogies. D&C 113 is just dead wrong and false doctrine. No doubt about that.

I think Joseph's mental condition/problem grew more and more extreme the more adulation he received combined with his paranoia about being an innocent victim persecuted by boogey men on every side.

Like David Koresh he had to convince his followers that he was the "be all, end all" and that true salvation was found only and exclusively through him. Pretty sad for his followers when you think about it.

Really sad for those of us who have to watch our families and friends consume this putrid refuse that has no spiritual nourishment whatsoever.

Did you see that Sister Holland and Sister Watson-Nelson have been reinterpreting prophesies to refer to RMN? The hubris.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:59 pm Did you see that Sister Holland and Sister Watson-Nelson have been reinterpreting prophesies to refer to RMN? The hubris.

Yeesh.....

Do you have any references on that? I would be really interested in reading them.

Palerider wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:11 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:59 pm Did you see that Sister Holland and Sister Watson-Nelson have been reinterpreting prophesies to refer to RMN? The hubris.

Yeesh.....

Do you have any references on that? I would be really interested in reading them.

Sister Holland: "I'd like you to listen to Jehovah's words about ancient Israel and think about President Nelson: (Isaiah 48:17) "Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea".....Let me close with one more scripture. It is my prayer - perhaps all of us would like to offer to President Nelson as he begins his present ministry and makes all of our lives happier and better:

(Psalm 91 - the Messianic Psalm about Jesus!!) '9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. ..14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. 15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. 16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.'

I testify these scriptures about President Nelson are true and equally true about his beautiful wife, and I testify that our Saviour Jesus Christ is in this room. I just felt Him the moment I came in, and we all love and honour President Nelson because we know...."

Palerider wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:11 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:59 pm Did you see that Sister Holland and Sister Watson-Nelson have been reinterpreting prophesies to refer to RMN? The hubris.

Yeesh.....

Do you have any references on that? I would be really interested in reading them.

WENDY WATSON NELSON: "In the last 3 1/2 months it has been quite an experience to send my husband off to work because many days at the end of a rigorous day for him of meetings and decisions at headquarters the man I greet at the end of the day is just a little different from the man I kissed goodbye in the morning. I can’t even describe what those differences are. I can only tell you that my husband is at age 93 1/2 is becoming more and more of his true self every day. And why wouldn’t he be?

He is now doing what he was foreordained to do. You and I know that before the foundation of this earth my husband was for-ordained to be the prophet of the Lord at this precise time on Earth. I would like to read just one paragraph of what Elder Bruce R McConkie, a departed member of the quorum of the 12, said about President Spencer W Kimball when President Kimball was called to be the prophet. I will insert my husband‘s name, so this is Elder Bruce R McConkie speaking of my husband’s life pre-mortally.

It takes my breath away because I DO know that this is true. Elder Bruce R McConkie is saying 'President Russell Marion Nelson knew pre-mortally and worshipped the Lord Jehovah. He, pre-mortally, was a friend of Adam and Enoch. President Nelson pre-mortally took counsel from Noah and Abraham. He sat in meetings with Isaiah and Nephi. He served in the heavenly kingdom with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young.'

Well my dear brothers and sisters this is indeed the Lord’s Church. My husband was foreordained to be the Lord’s prophet here on Earth to help gather Israel and to help the Church and the world to prepare for the second coming of our Saviour Jesus Christ.

You and I also lived premortally with our Heavenly Parents and the Saviour. We fought in that war of words in heaven which continues on Earth tonight. We stood by Jesus Christ and we covenanted to accomplish certain assignments while we were here on earth. We also covenanted to help gather scattered Israel and to prepare ourselves, our family members, our friends and the world for the second coming of our Saviour. I pray that we will seek to remember our pre-mortal valour and stand up for truth even and especially when it is not easy and live up to the truth of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ, keeping our covenants with ever increasing precision. In the name of Jesus Christ Amen."

Reminds me of a few lines from Four Preludes on Playthings of the Wind by Carl Sandburg.

We are the greatest city,
the greatest nation,
nothing like us ever was...

Now all that's left … are … the rats … and the lizards.
And the crows crying, “Caw, caw."

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:26 pm

Palerider wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:11 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:59 pm Did you see that Sister Holland and Sister Watson-Nelson have been reinterpreting prophesies to refer to RMN? The hubris.

Yeesh.....

Do you have any references on that? I would be really interested in reading them.

Sister Holland: "I'd like you to listen to Jehovah's words about ancient Israel and think about President Nelson: (Isaiah 48:17) "Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea".....Let me close with one more scripture. It is my prayer - perhaps all of us would like to offer to President Nelson as he begins his present ministry and makes all of our lives happier and better:

(Psalm 91 - the Messianic Psalm about Jesus!!) '9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. ..14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. 15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. 16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.'

I testify these scriptures about President Nelson are true and equally true about his beautiful wife, and I testify that our Saviour Jesus Christ is in this room. I just felt Him the moment I came in, and we all love and honour President Nelson because we know...."

This stuff......this stuff runs very close to blasphemy.

Actually I think it is blasphemous. They just don't actually verbalize Nelson's divinity.

None of these scriptures pertain to a prophet even if he were a real prophet. They are strictly Messianic.

These people are in deep, deep self deception. Their ego readings must be off the charts. I can't help but think that church leadership are in for a very rude awakening.

Palerider wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:38 pm These people are in deep, deep self deception. Their ego readings must be off the charts. I can't help but think that church leadership are in for a very rude awakening.

We can only hope that someone at LDS HQ wakes up. But they have enough money and devoted followers to shield themselves from any public mea culpa. What might a realistic "rude awakening" look like for the LDS apostles and prophets? Short having the Second Coming of Jesus and not being on His agenda, what might occur?

But imagine how nice it must feel to come to the conclusion that you are one of the very most important people of the 100 billion or so who have ever lived on this planet. Good for him! Maybe Pres. Nelson will take the next step and write himself into the bible too.

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:21 am

Palerider wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:38 pm These people are in deep, deep self deception. Their ego readings must be off the charts. I can't help but think that church leadership are in for a very rude awakening.

We can only hope that someone at LDS HQ wakes up. But they have enough money and devoted followers to shield themselves from any public mea culpa. What might a realistic "rude awakening" look like for the LDS apostles and prophets? Short having the Second Coming of Jesus and not being on His agenda, what might occur?

I won't be foolish enough to suggest all of the ways this could happen. What I have observed in my fairly experienced life is that we reap what we sow, what goes around comes around, pride goeth before a fall.....karma in a more Christian sense, is a real thing as far as I'm concerned. If a person steps far enough over that line someone will rap them on the knuckles.

I think I am going to throw up.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:26 pm

Palerider wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:11 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:59 pm Did you see that Sister Holland and Sister Watson-Nelson have been reinterpreting prophesies to refer to RMN? The hubris.

Yeesh.....

Do you have any references on that? I would be really interested in reading them.

Sister Holland: "I'd like you to listen to Jehovah's words about ancient Israel and think about President Nelson: (Isaiah 48:17) "Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea".....Let me close with one more scripture. It is my prayer - perhaps all of us would like to offer to President Nelson as he begins his present ministry and makes all of our lives happier and better:

(Psalm 91 - the Messianic Psalm about Jesus!!) '9 Because thou hast made the Lord, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10 There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. 11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. 12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone. ..14 Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name. 15 He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him. 16 With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.'

I testify these scriptures about President Nelson are true and equally true about his beautiful wife, and I testify that our Saviour Jesus Christ is in this room. I just felt Him the moment I came in, and we all love and honour President Nelson because we know...."

This is just like a Cult. I hope I can use that word?

It would be neat if Sister Wendy could connect her hubby to this scripture:

Genesis 60:2-6
2. Behold, I sippeth thy barley elixir and seeth a great man. 3. The man rideth across the plains on a bold tapir and traveleth a new land of marvelous wonder. 4. When the man speaketh to the multitude in his spacious conference center they are humbled. 5. For what man hath such power than the true emissary of God and holder of the Sacred Eye of Agamotto. 6. By the waters of City Creek, they beholdeth his awesome majesty.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:56 pm It would be neat if Sister Wendy could connect her hubby to this scripture:

Genesis 60:2-6
2. Behold, I sippeth thy barley elixir and seeth a great man. 3. The man rideth across the plains on a bold tapir and traveleth a new land of marvelous wonder. 4. When the man speaketh to the multitude in his spacious conference center they are humbled. 5. For what man hath such power than the true emissary of God and holder of the Sacred Eye of Agamotto. 6. By the waters of City Creek, they beholdeth his awesome majesty.

There's no doubt she has beholdeth his awesome majesty.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:03 pm

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:56 pm It would be neat if Sister Wendy could connect her hubby to this scripture:

Genesis 60:2-6
2. Behold, I sippeth thy barley elixir and seeth a great man. 3. The man rideth across the plains on a bold tapir and traveleth a new land of marvelous wonder. 4. When the man speaketh to the multitude in his spacious conference center they are humbled. 5. For what man hath such power than the true emissary of God and holder of the Sacred Eye of Agamotto. 6. By the waters of City Creek, they beholdeth his awesome majesty.

There's no doubt she has beholdeth his awesome majesty.

I don't know. At his age I would be surprised if he has any awesome anything.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:26 pm President Nelson: (Isaiah 48:17) "Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Well there's certainly one thread of truth to that profetic interpretation - learning how to profit! Perhaps it should have been to learn how to prophet, because there's a true lack of that at the COB!

Don't try and tell me Sister Wendy Watson Nelson isn't on one heck of an ego trip about being the Prophet's wife. And that was what she was hoping for - under normal circumstances 57 year old women do not marry 81 year old men, is there anyone who really believes she would have gone for him if he hadn't been an apostle with a fair chance of being President of the Church someday?

She scares me. Her "Not Even Once Club" and "covenant marriage" teachings are downright toxic and dangerous, and she has managed to maneuver herself into the highest platform in the Church a woman can have for spreading her views. She can do a lot of damage from where is she sitting, and I will be surprised if she doesn't.

It's a pretty common thing for authors to do. Over on TV Tropes one form of it is known as Author Avatar, the character that provides of projection of the author into the work. Sometimes it's obvious. Sometimes not so much. Sometimes they even have the same name. Dante presented himself as the central character in his comedy. Alexandre Dumas considered himself one of his musketeers. He would attend parties dressed up like one. We once saw a theatrical adaptation of "The Three Musketeers" with Dumas as one of the characters in the cast, because of how much he and his situation impacted the story. Pretty much any Ayn Rand character that we're supposed to look up to is a representation of the author. Dagny certainly is. And John Galt, especially when he drones on in his grand speech. Charlie Brown is Charles Schulz, as are the rest of the characters. Heinlein was fond of having a character that represented himself who dispensed wisdom, such as Jubal Harshaw in "Stranger in a Strange Land". Tolkien has his character's name, Beren, inscribed on his tombstone as is his wife's, Lúthien, on hers. "The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian" is a fictionalized account of Sherman Alexie's own teenage years.

It's a lot easier to make accurate predictions when you write about something that has already happened. It's easier to proclaim your importance, when your role is the subject of ancient prophecies that you've just created. It's a common literary device and trick.