NOM

A thought I had over the weekend - If Joe Bishop had his 2nd anointing, and why wouldn't he have had it as the MTC Prez, then my understanding is he has a get out of jail free card. But who knows what the written and or unwritten rules exist regarding 2nd anointing and behavior unbecoming of a super VIP pass holder. It's not like he (or any other douchebag predators in positions of power) can claim the flaming sword angel told him to do it, but do they think they can get away with this kind of crap because of their special secret foot washing?

Is the COB backing themselves into a bit of a corner on dicapline because of 2nd annointings? Where they counting on misbehavior of the most heinous kind at that level?

I don't think second anointings stop the church from disciplining someone. I think all 70s get them, but Hamula was excommunicated.

Reuben wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:14 am I don't think second anointings stop the church from disciplining someone. I think all 70s get them, but Hamula was excommunicated.

Sounds like the best of both worlds: guaranteed exaltation and freedom from church obligations.

Reuben wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:14 am I don't think second anointings stop the church from disciplining someone. I think all 70s get them, but Hamula was excommunicated.

That begs the question: what is the benefit of receiving your second anointing if you can still be excommunicated? Does that mean he is considered to have denied the HG and is going to outer darkness? It seems that a second anointing doesn't guarantee exhaultation, it just makes the punishment worse if you mess up.

oliblish wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:41 am It seems that a second anointing doesn't guarantee exhaultation, it just makes the punishment worse if you mess up.

Great point! Where much is given much is expected. Which begs another question about the power of dicernment and knowing if someone has reached a level qualifying them for having their calling and election made sure. I mean, that blessing or annointing implies they made it, that they passed all the tests, etc. So some prophet, see and revelator would the power of dicernment to know a koolaid drinker is worthy of such a blessing or they would not bestow it. Obviously I'm borrowing from the recent pod cast on RFM about the COB's admitting to not having the power of discernment. But not knowing the exact language of the ceremony, perhaps there are penalties, caveats, etc, associated with it? Might just be one more scare tactic the COB uses on the higher echolones to keep them in line.

oliblish wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:41 am

Reuben wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:14 am I don't think second anointings stop the church from disciplining someone. I think all 70s get them, but Hamula was excommunicated.

That begs the question: what is the benefit of receiving your second anointing if you can still be excommunicated? Does that mean he is considered to have denied the HG and is going to outer darkness? It seems that a second anointing doesn't guarantee exhaultation, it just makes the punishment worse if you mess up.

Assuming they actually believe calling-and-election-made-sure to be a real thing, I think it just means that they can publicly discipline him for the satisfaction of people who demand seeing action, but he still gets to keep his nudge-nudge-wink-wink special eternal good ol' boy powers and dominions. To truly deny the Holy Ghost and warrant Outer Freakin' Darkness you have to actually have had genuine supernatural experiences, but since it's all just cosplay that isn't very likely to have happened.

While I agree that it is all make-believe, my understanding of second anointing/calling and election doctrine is that the recipient is guaranteed exaltation in due course, but will pay a steep price for their transgressions before being eventually delivered. I've always understood this to mean that the individual can be excommunicated, etc. but eventually redeemed in the Lord's own good time. i.e. end of millennium.

This is the scripture I have heard quoted in this regard, though admittedly it is all tied up in the plural marriage doctrine and I might be missing something. It's been a while since I worried about such things.

Doctrine and Covenants 132:26
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

Phil Lurkerman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:10 am Doctrine and Covenants 132:26
26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.

Raises another question: If sexual sin is next to murder, sure seems like it's treated with much less angst by the COB amount it's upper leaders. I guess if they can make her out to be the antagonists, Joe Bishops get's off with a slap on the hand.

Read a doctoral dissertation about the second anointing and why THAT was the 'best justification' (so the paper said) for the church leadership going with Bringum Young. He had it--Sydney didn't, and neither did others (like Strang). Anyway...after Tom Phillip's disclosure,...hmmmm.....well, lets just say that not much astonishes me these days, but THAT TOOK MY BREATH AWAY! Even John Dehlin had to regain composure a few times.

Anyway...

70s DO NOT automatically receive the anointing. Not mission presidents, and not SP. It is by invitation ONLY, and from that perspective, not necessarily even members of the Q15...with I'm sure the exception of the FP as well as senior apostles.
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While in the MF some 35 years ago, Phillip Sontag, who was a member of the 1st quorem?...he spoke candidly about this anointing. Few in the mission audience knew what he was talking about. I did. He mentioned several things about it, but frankly indicated he did NOT have his blessing, and considering his position, I take it from that there were few in the 70s if any. I also know my MP did not.

It is likely that Joe Bishop did NOT have his anointing. But if he did I wouldn't be surprised because when it comes down to it, at this point I think its some fancy ceremony that somehow allows entry to the "good ole boy club"

PS. Tom Phillips never got to see GOD. Why is that,...considering its one of the blessings to have communion with the Church of of the First Born and also have the heavens opened?

I guess the church lost the entheogen recipe. Sad.....

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:15 pm Read a doctoral dissertation about the second anointing and why THAT was the 'best justification' (so the paper said) for the church leadership going with Bringum Young. He had it--Sydney didn't, and neither did others (like Strang). Anyway...after Tom Phillip's disclosure,...hmmmm.....well, lets just say that not much astonishes me these days, but THAT TOOK MY BREATH AWAY! Even John Dehlin had to regain composure a few times.

Thanks Rob, I can't remember the Mormon Stories interview with Tom so I'm going to give it a listen.