NOM

After 2 sacrament talks in ward conference, it's apparent that my posts on social media have caused people to take questions to the ward and stake leadership. My posts were about Joseph Bishop etc. I do not know if my name was mentioned, but I suspect I'm on the radar.

Leadership was a bit condescending, warning people that asking questions and looking for information will only make you unhappy, just follow what you know, and stay off Facebook, and all will be fine. Just trust us.

The stake president cried over his son leaving the church, and being unwilling to listen to him and his mother. I wondered how much HE has listened to his son. They unquestioningly trust that they have the truth, and anything questioning the truth is influenced by evil.

I can't look abuse victims in the eye at work and at the same time support a church that pays for victims' silence while abusers stay in positions of authority.

I thought my local units were at least safe to stay somewhat engaged, but today I realized that these men are not capable of perspective taking or of considering the harms occurring. I'm not great at not saying what I think -- at some point the rubber meets the road and I lose social capital in a big way.

A family member is getting married in Aug. My recommend expires before then. I am sure I can't nuance a recommend interview. Spouseman is not going to make waves at church and especially not with family.

It's not good for me to be alone. I really don't want to have to do this by myself, but I may have no choice.

I wish I could be there IRL to lend a physical shoulder to cry on . . . Sorry it's so stinking hard.

I think their reaction to all of this is full of fear. Fear, fear, fear. "Don't Look! Don't Investigate! (ironically...) Don't Question! You won't like what you find..."

I feel your frustration and pain. They're burying their heads in the sand, and the longer I see it, the more it seems it's part of human nature- cog dis and confirmation bias are being relabeled faith. An editorial in the Deseret News described something called "faith-based knowledge." The LDS Church has labeled faith/belief as knowledge for generations now, and the dishonesty of that is something they refuse to admit. Such action requires a group-think mentality, it's much easier to believe the propaganda when everyone, or almost everyone else does.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:15 pmIt's not good for me to be alone. I really don't want to have to do this by myself, but I may have no choice.

You're not alone. Even if it's just virtual, we're here to support you in any way we can. Keep reaching out here as much as you need, reach out to other NOM's in real life if possible, and please take care of yourself.

I understand about not being able to look sex abuse victims in the eyes. I was counseling several Mormon incest victims when R G Scott's horrible talk came out. 1992, the year I had to apologize to my clients for a clueless church. My clients were so hurt and angry. I didn't know how to comfort them. What am I supposed to do, tell them that the dude is a fraud? The whole talk was just so off base and obviously not from a loving God and they were devastated. How could God warn them away from group counseling where for the first time in their life they knew they were not the only one? How could God suggest they not talk about it? Avoid counseling? And examine to see if they were not partially to blame----just what the hell did he think they have been doing if not blaming themselves and just when maybe they think it might not have been them that are born evil, a prophet of God comes along and tells them to look and see if they are not really at fault. R G Scott is a jackass and I hope he rots in whatever hell there is at least until all the victims he crushed with that talk have had a chance to kick him in the balls. Obviously it was not from a God who loved his daughters. At. All.

So glad I am retired. So glad I don't have to face Mormon child sex abuse victims, rape victims, and have to figure out how to comfort them when it becomes obvious that the church doesn't give a shit if women get molested by men in power, they must protect the good name of the church no matter who they throw under the bus.

But, no this has not been at all triggering and I am fine---the way a favorite client used to define "fine" F***ed up, Insecure, Neurotic, and Emotional. So, I'm F.I.N.E.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:15 pm Warning people that asking questions and looking for information will only make you unhappy, just follow what you know, and stay off Facebook, and all will be fine. Just trust us.

Keep your head in the sand all day long,
Wear you blinders with a heart full of song,
For it to work; let no one smirk.
Keep your head in the sand.

Solidarity! Carry on. Namaste!

Thoughtful, I think you are amazing and I really admire your strength.

Thanks all for the comments.

I wrote a letter to my bishop asking for specific, better safeguards.

I also got a job offer today doing parent trainings and I'm being courted by another, higher level department at work. It would move my job from direct service into supervision of therapists and assessment. Either option would be less stress to take home. So we will see where that goes. It might at least reduce my mental load.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:03 pm Thanks all for the comments.

I wrote a letter to my bishop asking for specific, better safeguards.

I also got a job offer today doing parent trainings and I'm being courted by another, higher level department at work. It would move my job from direct service into supervision of therapists and assessment. Either option would be less stress to take home. So we will see where that goes. It might at least reduce my mental load.

Thoughtful, congrats on your job offer and way to go on your letter to the bishop! Your OP was kind of nuts, stay off facebook??? Really?? And why is it not ok to post about Joseph Bishop, and safeguards for children, youth, etc? Wouldn't Jesus want that, since he talked about loving and protecting children:

Matthew 18 King James Version (KJV)

18 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?

2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,

3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.

6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Can't argue with Jesus if your church is called "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints."

Have you done anything wrong? You stated opinions of which there are many?? Stick to your guns..should the time come that they might want to meet with you, have the meeting in your home on your terms. Is anybody tired of the bullying in the world of morgbot shaming and brainwashing? You have friends here..and all over. Just be you and true to yourself. Be ready to answer questions and have questions ready to ask them..for which will be a non answer that you can point to.

Much love,
Margarita

Well since I wrote this things got better, but then I saw the KUTV news article about the church working with Greg Bishop to smear the MTC rape victim. What in the actual eff? It's constant whiplash.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:48 pm Well since I wrote this things got better, but then I saw the KUTV news article about the church working with Greg Bishop to smear the MTC rape victim. What in the actual eff? It's constant whiplash.

This is beyond f#$%ed up!!!

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:48 pm Well since I wrote this things got better, but then I saw the KUTV news article about the church working with Greg Bishop to smear the MTC rape victim. What in the actual eff? It's constant whiplash.

Do you have a link for that?

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:30 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:48 pm Well since I wrote this things got better, but then I saw the KUTV news article about the church working with Greg Bishop to smear the MTC rape victim. What in the actual eff? It's constant whiplash.

Do you have a link for that?

It's probably this one: http://kutv.com/news/local/exclusive-do ... ex-scandal

This suggests that the smear campaign was all Greg Bishop (if we believe Jordan):

[David] Jordan [a lawyer at the firm Stoel Rives, who represented the church in settlement talks] acknowledged that he wrote the letter and only sent it to [Greg] Bishop because he had been included in an email chain by the accuser’s attorney. Jordan says he did not release the letter to the media.

This is unsettling:

The document includes everything we saw in Bishop’s email, plus a review of her ecclesiastical church record.

Using someone's ecclesiastical record in settlement talks seems like a breech of ethics.

Reuben wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:47 pm

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:30 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:48 pm Well since I wrote this things got better, but then I saw the KUTV news article about the church working with Greg Bishop to smear the MTC rape victim. What in the actual eff? It's constant whiplash.

Do you have a link for that?

It's probably this one: http://kutv.com/news/local/exclusive-do ... ex-scandal

This suggests that the smear campaign was all Greg Bishop (if we believe Jordan):

[David] Jordan [a lawyer at the firm Stoel Rives, who represented the church in settlement talks] acknowledged that he wrote the letter and only sent it to [Greg] Bishop because he had been included in an email chain by the accuser’s attorney. Jordan says he did not release the letter to the media.

This is unsettling:

The document includes everything we saw in Bishop’s email, plus a review of her ecclesiastical church record.

Using someone's ecclesiastical record in settlement talks seems like a breech of ethics.

The church provided their collection of dirt on the victim, including ecclesiastical history to Bishop who sent it to the media.

Then Hawkins said the church legal and church ecclesiastical behavior are separate, so this was all fine to do. The statement contradicts somewhat the earlier statement that the church cannot possibly investigate allegations, that's the police job...