NOM

It's my turn to find speakers for this month. And next - but sufficient is the day.

I hate this part of the job. We have a lot of people who outright refuse to give talks in sacrament meeting. I don't blame them. I hate doing it myself. I hate asking others to do it precisely because I understand how badly it sucks. On the other hand, it makes this job so much harder when people say no.

Sometimes they offer up their reasons, and sometimes those reasons are valid. But a lot of time there is no explanation, just a deep seated contempt that I feel radiating back in their pseudo-smiles and nervous eyes, through their voices and short answers, even their one word text responses.

I don't need an explanation. In a way, I'm hopeful that their response is negative because they've seen through the "veil." They know the man behind the curtain is only pretending to be who he claims and they don't feel the need to keep up the charade. In a way, I'm jealous that they get to say no, while I'm trapped in a never-ending game of going-through-the-motions so I don't break up families.

I understand it. I envy it. I wish I could tell them how deeply I understand why they say no.

But in the end, every time someone tells me they won't speak in sacrament meeting. It just means there is one more visit, one more phone call, or one more text message on my list of things to do. One more time I need to reach out to someone and see them cringe as I approach. One more time I get to put someone on the spot when the truth is neither of us wants to be there.

I hate this part of the job.

/rant

I did not know it was that challenging to find speakers. I had to find people to pray in sacrament meeting when I was ward clerk, but that's an order of magnitude easier. Have you ever been able to acknowledge back to anyone about how you understand their refusal?

Sorry you need to go through that. My biggest hurdle when I was hanging round in those circles was conducting on Fast Sunday and kicking testimony meeting off by bearing my own - there's only so many times you can give an anaemic love jesus type, 30 second and out display; without it really starting to eat away at you (once you've looked behind the curtain).

Corsair wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:11 pm I did not know it was that challenging to find speakers. I had to find people to pray in sacrament meeting when I was ward clerk, but that's an order of magnitude easier. Have you ever been able to acknowledge back to anyone about how you understand their refusal?

It is the worst. People over 35 are insulted if you don't at least call. People under 30 never answer their damned phones if you do call, so catching them in person or texting is all you can do. Between those ranges... its a crap shoot. If I'm lining up speakers for at least two weeks out, texting is fine, but it takes a lot of time because people don't respond for days at a time.

When people offer an explanation I try to be understanding and positive about it. I really do. Often when there is no explanation offered, I'll just smile, say its alright and that we'll catch them next time. Sometimes, depending on who it is I'll joke that I would pass too if I was them, but I don't think anyone believes me. There are a lot of glares from people wondering how I could be so thoughtless as to put them in that awkward position in the first place.

The months when I am neither finding speakers nor conducting are like vacations.

redjay wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:30 pm Sorry you need to go through that. My biggest hurdle when I was hanging round in those circles was conducting on Fast Sunday and kicking testimony meeting off by bearing my own - there's only so many times you can give an anaemic love jesus type, 30 second and out display; without it really starting to eat away at you (once you've looked behind the curtain).

This! Thank you! I usually end up telling some stupid story our family has recently gone through and capping it off with "gospel brings peace" or something like that.

Bishopric counselor is the worst of the worst gig if you are the type of person that hates asking people to do things you would rather not do yourself. It is a hamster wheel of never ending administrative drudgery. I suffered through it once, never again.

If you're in Phoenix, I'll volunteer to give a talk as a guest speaker.

I guarantee the congregation will talk about it for a long time and will probably relieve you of worrying about this assignment in the future.

This is a seriously hard problem from several angles, the one asking, the one constantly being asked to do too much by the church, and then there are those members who never get asked. I have been in all three positions.

and, that last one is the solution to the first two. I can promise that there is a sister in your ward who you think is a (pick one) raging feminist, a crazy cat lady, slightly apostate, too shy, too opinionated, something, and she has not been asked to do a damned thing for the last ten years and probably has no calling because there are not enough men for the callings, but not enough callings for the women. But you are so sure that sister raging feminist ....... Too opinionated will turn you down that you don't even consider her and she is almost dead from neglect. She is on the edge of going inactive because she is considered "not good enough" by the 30 people in the ward who do everything. There are women on the fringe that are never even thought of. I know because I have been there. I am not sure which of those labels applied to me, but I suspect that many of the men in the ward felt intimidated by something about me. I had trouble connecting with the other women and needed a calling so we could get to know each other, but for some reason I went 15 years fully active with nothing, not being asked to say prayers or talk in sacrament meetings, nothing. I started joking that I had been disfellowshipped and no body told me. My bishop didn't get it because he could not see how fringe I had become. So, start looking for the lonely people on the fringe. I can promise they will be surprised you thought of them because no one else ever does.

This was one of the reasons that I told my bishop I didn't have a testimony the year before I decided to leave the church. I was the EQP, but told him I'd continue in that calling while I could, but I wouldn't teach, speak, or bear testimony to things I didn't believe. Since I didn't have a testimony even of a loving god, that limited me to not bearing testimony of anything.

alas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:43 pm I can promise that there is a sister in your ward who you think is a (pick one) raging feminist, a crazy cat lady, slightly apostate, too shy, too opinionated, something, and she has not been asked to do a damned thing for the last ten years and probably has no calling

This!

græy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:32 pm It is the worst. People over 35 are insulted if you don't at least call. People under 30 never answer their damned phones if you do call, so catching them in person or texting is all you can do. Between those ranges... its a crap shoot. If I'm lining up speakers for at least two weeks out, texting is fine, but it takes a lot of time because people don't respond for days at a time.

When people offer an explanation I try to be understanding and positive about it. I really do. Often when there is no explanation offered, I'll just smile, say its alright and that we'll catch them next time. Sometimes, depending on who it is I'll joke that I would pass too if I was them, but I don't think anyone believes me. There are a lot of glares from people wondering how I could be so thoughtless as to put them in that awkward position in the first place.

The months when I am neither finding speakers nor conducting are like vacations.

The system is flawed, not because it never worked, but because it's never changed. If you look at when this system really flourished, under McKay and a bit longer into the 70's, America was a place where lots of people joined organizations and volunteered their time. They seemed to revel in attending meetings, sitting on boards, and building status. The church was an awesome place for that kind of thing. But the culture moved away from that, relatively quick. All the things that would have attracted my grand parents are now repellent to a growing majority. Exhibit A - most wards are lucky to have a 30% activity rate.

It's not your fault that you hate your job, and it's not the member's fault for saying no. It's the church's fault for pushing the idea that members are there to serve the church and not the other way around. If the church actually felt some sort of stewardship or responsibility for making the lives of members better, then they would behave differently.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:26 pm If you're in Phoenix, I'll volunteer to give a talk as a guest speaker.

I guarantee the congregation will talk about it for a long time and will probably relieve you of worrying about this assignment in the future.

It’s a thankless job. Good luck!

græy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:01 pmSometimes they offer up their reasons, and sometimes those reasons are valid.

In a volunteer organization: Any reason whatsoever for someone not wanting to volunteer is completely valid.

You also have every right to stop volunteering at any time @græy.

I had this job once. I will always remember asking an elderly sister ( an RM who served in the 50s ) to speak. She said “Bishop I have always loved speaking in church. As I have aged I have discovered there are lots of things I use to love to do but have had to give up. Speaking in church is one of them. Thanks anyway” I though that was the cleverest responses I ever head. Never had the presence of mind to use it myself alas.

Kishkumen wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:26 pm If you're in Phoenix, I'll volunteer to give a talk as a guest speaker.

I guarantee the congregation will talk about it for a long time and will probably relieve you of worrying about this assignment in the future.

LOL, thanks for the offer Kishkumen. If I was in Phoenix, I'd take you up on that.

oliver_denom wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:49 am It's the church's fault for pushing the idea that members are there to serve the church and not the other way around. If the church actually felt some sort of stewardship or responsibility for making the lives of members better, then they would behave differently.

I agree with this thought. The purpose of attending a church or group is that your benefit from it in some way. The current line of thinking seems to be that we benefit by doing exactly as we're told to maintain the status quo. But filling in 180 minutes by thoughtlessly repeating thoughtless quotes from church leadership doesn't really benefit anyone.

alas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:43 pm I can promise that there is a sister in your ward who you think is a [person who] has not been asked to do a damned thing for the last ten years and probably has no calling because there are not enough men for the callings, but not enough callings for the women.

You're right. Our ward is very young, and not very big. So I feel like we do get pretty good coverage, but there have to be some that we've missed "extending the opportunity too." I'll see what I can do about that.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:09 pm Bishopric counselor is the worst of the worst gig if you are the type of person that hates asking people to do things you would rather not do yourself. It is a hamster wheel of never ending administrative drudgery. I suffered through it once, never again.

That's why I love this place. The sweet sweet empathy.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:33 am

græy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:01 pmSometimes they offer up their reasons, and sometimes those reasons are valid.

In a volunteer organization: Any reason whatsoever for someone not wanting to volunteer is completely valid.

You also have every right to stop volunteering at any time @græy.

Yep. The members refusing to give talks aren’t the bad guys - they are grown up adults who should be able to determine for themselves whether or not they speak in front of the Ward. People who say no in the Church are never the bad guy.

The bad guy is the pushy manipulative bossy-pants Church that tries to force nice people into situations where they have to try to force people into doing things they don’t want to do. But the people who say no aren’t the bad guys.

crossmyheart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:25 am

alas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:43 pm I can promise that there is a sister in your ward who you think is a (pick one) raging feminist, a crazy cat lady, slightly apostate, too shy, too opinionated, something, and she has not been asked to do a damned thing for the last ten years and probably has no calling

This!

Yep. I haven't exactly been ignored for ten years, but I don't get asked to speak often. I like to speak in church. I don't mind in the least. It is the one time in church I feel like I can be myself. I'd rather have a calling speaking once a quarter or even once a month than the calling I currently have. I do however refuse to pray in church.

Asking people to do things is lousy. When I was in the RS presidency I had to ask women to pray every Sunday and I hated it. I admit I always asked the same few women I knew would say yes.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:42 pm

crossmyheart wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:25 am

alas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:43 pm I can promise that there is a sister in your ward who you think is a (pick one) raging feminist, a crazy cat lady, slightly apostate, too shy, too opinionated, something, and she has not been asked to do a damned thing for the last ten years and probably has no calling

This!

Yep. I haven't exactly been ignored for ten years, but I don't get asked to speak often. I like to speak in church. I don't mind in the least. It is the one time in church I feel like I can be myself. I'd rather have a calling speaking once a quarter or even once a month than the calling I currently have. I do however refuse to pray in church.

Asking people to do things is lousy. When I was in the RS presidency I had to ask women to pray every Sunday and I hated it. I admit I always asked the same few women I knew would say yes.

I learned to always ask the same people, because some people do not say no, the just leave the meeting or get really rude in response. This was before I was put on the calling and speaking black list. So, I know exactly why it is the same people being asked. And if you ever volunteer, they treat you like a freak and never get back to you. The system is just screwed up. There is no communication for those who need to be more involved to say they want to be more involved and there is no acceptable way to back out of doing too much because if you say you can't handle more, you are wicked and disobeying God. So, it it any wonder that people's needs are not met. You cannot go to leaders and say, " I have two toddlers and pregnant again and throwing up constantly. Could I get a smaller calling for the next year or so." Or, "I just moved into the ward and my personality is such that I need to be in a calling in order to get to know people" Nope, you have no right to have needs, only the institution has a right to have needs. This is the problem in the church, they value those who give to the church and anyone with needs is garbage.

Graey, I am sorry for you having this calling that you hate. This has been mentioned so far in this thread, but the LDS church is a volunteer organization. They try and make you feel that it's not, that you're willingness to hand over all your time, mental, and physical energy to them is a test to see if you can spend eternity with God and your family. It's total BS. It is pure corruption.

I remember I was kind of early on in my faith crisis, about a year or a year and 1/2 in. I was still attending all 3 meetings, and I was the SS teacher. My husband knew I had serious doubts, but that I was trying to hold on to being a good Christian in the Mormon faith. I was teaching the BOM year, and I was able to find something good to talk about every time I taught. I often brought in heroic and inspriational stories from the news, about good people around the world making a difference. I talked aobut Heavenly Father's and the Savior's love for us. I used uplifting and interesting scriptures from the lessons, but ignored anything about Joseph Smith or guilt trip BS. The stake president was in our ward, and whenever he would visit, it was always my turn to teach. I was always kind of worried he would catch on to me leaving out big chunks of the lessons, and bringing in so many stories about non Mormons for my "inspiring stories". Instead, he would always come up to me and say how I knew how to teach with the spiri and how moved he felt by my lessons. I got a lot of compliments almost every time. I actually love teaching, and feel it's one of my talents.

The next year was going to be chuch history, and there was absolutely no way I was going to be able to teach any of the lessons. I took people's advice from the old NOM board and sent an email to my then bishop saying I was going to need to step down from my calling by a certain date (something around the 1st of January) due to having some personal stress and anxiety over my calling. He responded with a LONG guilt trip email about accepting callings, with some example stories of people. I responded a few weeks later by emailing him to say I had left my SS manual on the SS president's doorstep, with a note explaining I could no longer fulfill my duties as SS teacher. (I even went back and read it before I wrote this.) I told my TBM husband the truth, that I couldn't teach church history with the spirit because of all I had learned about JS and BY etc. He pretty much understood. A few months later, a BP counselor who was a family friend called me in to try and give me a calling as a youth SS teacher, with the manual being on church history again. I was very brief, but told him that due to some struggles I was having with things I learned about JS, I could not teach church history with the spirit and that it wouldn't be fair to those kids (like ages 15-16 I think.) That was it.

I know it's tough, but you do not have to stay in a calling you hate. This life is SO short and precious, and every minute we waste on stuff that makes us unhappy is time we will never get back. Watching this video was a very powerful experience for me, it's short but please take a couple minutes to watch:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BOksW_NabEk

Good luck whatever you do.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:25 pm Yep. The members refusing to give talks aren’t the bad guys - they are grown up adults who should be able to determine for themselves whether or not they speak in front of the Ward. People who say no in the Church are never the bad guy.

The bad guy is the pushy manipulative bossy-pants Church that tries to force nice people into situations where they have to try to force people into doing things they don’t want to do. But the people who say no aren’t the bad guys.

FWIW, I do agree with this. Everyone I talk to absolutely has the right to say no. I don't blame them at all. I don't need an explanation.

I did need to vent for a bit that in a month that really only required me to find 8 speakers, I had to contact >16 people. It is a HUGE time sink on my part, and it sucks to be seen as "the pushy manipulative bossy-pants" church representative, when in reality I don't want to do the asking any more then they want to accept.

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:48 pm I know it's tough, but you do not have to stay in a calling you hate.

StarbucksMom, thank you for the encouragement and understanding. I do wish it was as easy as just getting released, but the truth is that there are very real consequences to me if I take that step. In my case, that alternative, is far worse than my present... challenges.

I told my TBM husband the truth, that I couldn't teach church history with the spirit because of all I had learned about JS and BY etc. He pretty much understood.

My TBM wife doesn't understand. Not at all.