NOM

Been reading lately about how some narcissists are paranoid as well. Apparently not that uncommon because they have to constantly live in fear of being found out in their lies and are always shifting blame to others while considering themselves to be above the law.

Anyway, I had occasion recently to read the scripture below and thought, "This person is coming up with this gigantic scenario and in doing so, he's revealing how he interprets the world around him." This writing is SO grandiose it almost becomes comedic. Hard for me to imagine God actually coming up with this stuff.

D&C 122: 5-7 (there's actually more than this but this is sufficient for my purposes.)

"5. If thou art called to pass through tribulation; if thou art in perils among false brethren; if thou art in perils among robbers; if thou art in perils by land or by sea;

6 If thou art accused with all manner of false accusations; if thine enemies fall upon thee; if they tear thee from the society of thy father and mother and brethren and sisters; and if with a drawn sword thine enemies tear thee from the bosom of thy wife, and of thine offspring, and thine elder son, although but six years of age, shall cling to thy garments, and shall say, My father, my father, why can’t you stay with us? O, my father, what are the men going to do with you? and if then he shall be thrust from thee by the sword, and thou be dragged to prison, and thine enemies prowl around thee like wolves for the blood of the lamb;

7 And if thou shouldst be cast into the pit, or into the hands of murderers, and the sentence of death passed upon thee; if thou be cast into the deep; if the billowing surge conspire against thee; if fierce winds become thine enemy; if the heavens gather blackness, and all the elements combine to hedge up the way; and above all, if the very jaws of hell shall gape open the mouth wide after thee, know thou, my son, that all these things shall give thee experience, and shall be for thy good."

Apparently this guy never heard of hyperbole....

I know Joe went through some tough times (mostly his own doing) but the guy is a real drama-queen.

Palerider wrote: ↑Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:42 pmApparently this guy never heard of hyperbole....
I know Joe went through some tough times (mostly his own doing) but the guy is a real drama-queen.

That was part of his charisma though - he was good at making his followers think they were part of something dramatic, something big, something epic. And he was good at convincing his followers they were persecuted because the Devil was opposing God’s will, when it was mostly just the rest of the population reacting to an overreaching religious charlatan who made trouble wherever he went with his schemes for money, power, and sex.

As a result, the Saints are still seeing Satan around every corner, thinking the Devil is trying to thwart God’s work when it is just the rest of the population reacting to an overreaching religion that is oblivious to its own weirdness and goofiness.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:59 am As a result, the Saints are still seeing Satan around every corner, thinking the Devil is trying to thwart God’s work when it is just the rest of the population reacting to an overreaching religion that is oblivious to its own weirdness and goofiness.

This Satan everywhere and a persecution complex are what jump out now to me. It really everywhere, like you mention.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:54 am

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:59 am As a result, the Saints are still seeing Satan around every corner, thinking the Devil is trying to thwart God’s work when it is just the rest of the population reacting to an overreaching religion that is oblivious to its own weirdness and goofiness.

This Satan everywhere and a persecution complex are what jump out now to me. It really everywhere, like you mention.

My sister asked me about Satan yesterday. I said I don’t believe in him and she was so relieved and said she didn’t either. It was so nice to laugh and talk with someone about how paranoid that belief system is.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:48 am

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:54 am

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:59 am As a result, the Saints are still seeing Satan around every corner, thinking the Devil is trying to thwart God’s work when it is just the rest of the population reacting to an overreaching religion that is oblivious to its own weirdness and goofiness.

This Satan everywhere and a persecution complex are what jump out now to me. It really everywhere, like you mention.

My sister asked me about Satan yesterday. I said I don’t believe in him and she was so relieved and said she didn’t either. It was so nice to laugh and talk with someone about how paranoid that belief system is.

I read something in one of my books called "proof texting". The New Testament has it, the Old Testament as well, and LDS Theology is filled with it.

It appears that the idea of "Lucifer" is something that has grown via proof-texting into a lot more than it originally was. Its also a sign of the sliding of tradition into myth.

I wrote in a previous thread about something I discovered in my mission--a witchcraft book that actually labeled the various demons, etc. As I recall, Lucifer's name was in there as a minor demon. Hunh?

The point of this thread is NOT to derail it--but I do want to mention that there is and continues to be a tendency to take the meaning of things in books like the bible and smear them past all recognition as to their original meaning. We ascribe meanings that go deeper and deeper and twist into all kinds of tangents. Its totally crazy. What is even more crazy is those ideas become enthroned as "doctrine".

I am reminded of Bill Reels podcast on the idea of Satan. Do you realize that in LDS theology, the only thing Satan (I'm using that according to its LDS meaning) has to do to win the "battle of heaven" is to simple withdraw and stop tempting? If he does that, we humans are denied the option of choosing right/wrong because Satan's influence, according to BoM theology is required to provide an enticement.

Satan CAN ACTUALLY WIN (as far as LDS theology is concerned). But he doesn't win, it appears, but the whole argument is ludicrous. Bill points that out.

I'm inclined to really wonder myself what "the devil" really is, if anything more than a proof-text version that never existed in the first place.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:59 am
That was part of his charisma though - he was good at making his followers think they were part of something dramatic, something big, something epic.

And doesn't this sound much more like someone we all know from the BoM?

Alma 30:31

"31 And he did rise up in great swelling words before Alma, and did revile against the priests and teachers, accusing them of leading away the people after the silly traditions of their fathers, for the sake of glutting on the labors of the people.

32 Now Alma said unto him: Thou knowest that we do not glut ourselves upon the labors of this people; for behold I have labored even from the commencement of the reign of the judges until now, with mine own hands for my support, notwithstanding my many travels round about the land to declare the word of God unto my people."

It's also interesting that Alma counters Korihor's argument by stating that he has utterly supported himself in teaching the Gospel. He didn’t go out and create a multi-billion dollar corporation masked as a religion, which feeds it's insatiable appetite from the impoverished people of the world.

I've never read such great and SWELLING words as the melodramatic baloney written in the D&C.

Maybe Heavenly Father (Joseph) was speaking as a cheap 19th century romance novel so He could relate to the people of that time? Can you see the women grasping their bosoms and fainting away? The men being driven to their knees by guilty consciences, raising their clasped hands heavenward?

The elaborate fandangling, flowery froufrou speechifying is enough to wrench repentance from my breast if only to get him to stop talking....