NOM

http://www.sltrib.com/news/4565608-156/ ... qus_thread

Yes, this is related to the current political activity. But I'm trying to steer is into the realm of doctrinal discussion.

A muslim leader in Utah is disappointed so many Mormon Utahns voted for Trump. He thought mormons would support an oppressed people given Mormons history. I'm torn on this. Did Mormons do what the felt was best or did they turn their backs on someone?

Let's just presume briefly that Mormons are really good at following orders, and the unofficial orders are to vote Republican. Can you blame someone that is doing what their supposed and doesn't know any better.

I believe most Mormons thought they were "doing what is best" under utilitarian ethics - the ends justifies the means. This is in contrast to my DW who would not vote for you-know-who because of the example he would set as leader of the nation. It just depends on what is most important to you. I think Muslims are justified in thinking they had been snubbed and betrayed by an erstwhile ally, but I don't think Mormons did it with that thought in mind. They just want to make damsure the next supreme court justice (or 2 or 3) is conservative, and that justifies a lot for them.

fh451

Mormons have only known one way which is to take care of themselves. In this case, as Fh451 mentioned it was in the form of republican conservatism.

Most Mormons I know don't personally know ANY Muslims. Why bother "looking out" for them at all? Especially since they haven't been told to by the prophet like he has with the refugees.

I know at least some of the older TBM generation may be prejudice against Muslims. Once in a HP meeting an old Irish guy testified that the Muslim faith was of the Devil; he had a lot of heads nodding his way. But I think the vote has more to do with an uneducated straight party conservative choice than it does with hating Muslims.

I think any member of a different religious group who thinks that Mormons would "have their back" fails to comprehend that Mormons are only interested in religious freedom when it includes and directly affects them. If you have similar goals and needs, then you've got a great alliance. If not, then tough luck. God touched their hearts to go a different way.

I think Mormons were clearly and primarily voting against Hillary/Democrats. This is evidenced by the fact that McMullen was in the lead until the white supremacist robocall accused him of being gay and same-sex marriage tolerant, at which point the votes immediately jumped over to Trump, who they saw as less gay-tolerant, which is a bigger deal for them than his own grievous sexual/sexist behavior and attitudes (at least he's a confirmed heterosexual!)

This is evidenced by the fact that McMullen was in the lead until the white supremacist robocall accused him of being gay and same-sex marriage tolerant, at which point the votes immediately jumped over to Trump

I heard a few whispers of this among some LDS friends.

document wrote:

This is evidenced by the fact that McMullen was in the lead until the white supremacist robocall accused him of being gay and same-sex marriage tolerant, at which point the votes immediately jumped over to Trump

I heard a few whispers of this among some LDS friends.

Yup. What I heard was from those who seemed more upset that he had "two Moms who were lesbians". I don't know if that's even true, but I found it interesting that they seemed to focus on that part rather than whether or not MuMullin himself was gay

It is true that his mom is now married to another woman. It's irrelevant to whether or not he would have been a good president, but true.

glass shelf wrote:It is true that his mom is now married to another woman. It's irrelevant to whether or not he would have been a good president, but true.

Ok, I hadn't checked that part out. I agree with you that it's irrelevant. I immediately thought of the new policy when I heard these members discussing that, though. Judging a child with gay parents...etc. (not that he's a child, but that's what it reminded me of).

glass shelf wrote:It is true that his mom is now married to another woman. It's irrelevant to whether or not he would have been a good president, but true.

I wasn't aware of this background.
A quick google search confirms the story and I read something about a guy that was a Trump supporter and made a bunch of Robo-calls defaming people in New Hampshire and the Trump campaign denounced him and said they were returning his $250 donation. It looks like this guy did another robo-call batch in Utah with this homophobic rhetoric and the Trump camp denounced it again.

I give credit to the Trump campaign if this is true. By my estimation, by the time the Trump camp found out about the robo-calls and denounced it, the damage was already done. This robo-caller guy really knows his audience. Utah is extremely fertile ground for a seed of homophobia.

I do know a lot of Muslims. I have advised many PhD students and visiting scholars who are Muslims. We've had them out for dinner, and they've hosted my family for dinner a few times as well. I can vouch that they are not evil or significantly different from Christians. If fact I went to a mosque with some students and met with the Imam in his office for a while, and the Imam had a very obviously well-worn speech about how terrorists do not represent Islam any more than skin-heads represent Christianity.

I hope they can live in peace.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-la ... d?lang=eng

I still remember this fantastic ensign article from 2000. If there was ever anything prescient by the brethren, it was the need for this article as Islamaphobia was to take root over the next 15 years.

Hagoth wrote:This is evidenced by the fact that McMullen was in the lead until the white supremacist robocall accused him of being gay and same-sex marriage tolerant, at which point the votes immediately jumped over to Trump, who they saw as less gay-tolerant, which is a bigger deal for them than his own grievous sexual/sexist behavior and attitudes (at least he's a confirmed heterosexual!)

Guess this is an instance of the greater hatred overshadowing the smaller one.

That robocaller certainly knew how to appeal to the baser instincts of Mormons.

Korihor wrote:A muslim leader in Utah is disappointed so many Mormon Utahns voted for Trump. He thought mormons would support an oppressed people given Mormons history. I'm torn on this. Did Mormons do what the felt was best or did they turn their backs on someone?

I can certainly empathize with the uncertainty felt by a minority group after an election like we just had. My lefty friends are still worried about the future. This Muslim leader is welcome to engage in political discussion. But the audience is also allowed to notice that he has expressed a false dichotomy cloaked in political rhetoric and has left out any supporting dielectic.

When faced with a very limited list of candidates, the average voting Mormon is going to evaluate their vote based on their values. It is no insult to a competing religious group to not vote how a Muslim leader would prefer they vote. It is simply human nature and the established democratic process.