NOM

1. Bishop sent my BIL the exec secretary over to schedule an appt with my son. My son has not been attending church or seminary and his health is better for it. Son said maybe, "depending on how much homework he has that night." I acted like it was a bizarre request and asked what it's about. BIL stumbled around and said his health and other stuff. I said to son, "what other stuff?" Just to be a pain and create the implication with BIL that this is stupid.

2.MIL is policing my girls more and more, including "if I were your mother, you would not be..." comments. About school dances and pink hair streaks and "oh my gosh" statements. I told Spouseman to talk to his parents and be clear that,

a. If you want a relationship where your grandchild can come to you when they're feeling bad, don't say things that make them feel bad. They will go to people who make them feel good.

b. If divorced parents talk that way about a parent to my child clients and it causes distress, I can call DCFS as its emotional abuse. Bad things will happen to people who abuse my children, including not being allowed to have a relationship with them.

3. I told Spouseman I find it odd that chastity interviews start at 7-8 years old when developmental psychology says kids can't understand consent until 16+. How can you break a chastity law by being abused? He agreed.

4. Spouseman wants me to proverbially "crap or get off the pot", resolve my cog dis and get out of dodge (church) instead of being psychologically miserable. I pointed out how local members including his parents have submarined people in my position and pointed out how in our small town, that's just trading one pain for another. He doesn't get it.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:52 am 1. Bishop sent my BIL the exec secretary over to schedule an appt with my son. My son has not been attending church or seminary and his health is better for it. Son said maybe, "depending on how much homework he has that night." I acted like it was a bizarre request and asked what it's about. BIL stumbled around and said his health and other stuff. I said to son, "what other stuff?" Just to be a pain and create the implication with BIL that this is stupid.

2.MIL is policing my girls more and more, including "if I were your mother, you would not be..." comments. About school dances and pink hair streaks and "oh my gosh" statements. I told Spouseman to talk to his parents and be clear that,

a. If you want a relationship where your grandchild can come to you when they're feeling bad, don't say things that make them feel bad. They will go to people who make them feel good.

b. If divorced parents talk that way about a parent to my child clients and it causes distress, I can call DCFS as its emotional abuse. Bad things will happen to people who abuse my children, including not being allowed to have a relationship with them.

3. I told Spouseman I find it odd that chastity interviews start at 7-8 years old when developmental psychology says kids can't understand consent until 16+. How can you break a chastity law by being abused? He agreed.

4. Spouseman wants me to proverbially "crap or get off the pot", resolve my cog dis and get out of dodge (church) instead of being psychologically miserable. I pointed out how local members including his parents have submarined people in my position and pointed out how in our small town, that's just trading one pain for another. He doesn't get it.

Just tell spouseman that you already finished up your crap, but now his family and his church are dumping crap all over you, so you had to run and sit on the pot so they cannot dump it all over your head. Then tell him how HIS mother is undermining your parenting, and how his brother is using his relationship with your son to get the kid back in seminary where he can't get enough sleep and it was ruining his health. Tell him that if he wants you to leave the church alone, the church (and its members) has to leave you alone. But it isn't going to do that.

I don't know, that is probably too inflammatory.

Part of the problem is that the church assumes that when a parent leaves the church, they still know it is true deep in their heart, so of course they want their children involved.

So, more realistic tactic. Your son has to learn to stick up for himself sooner or later and he is probably old enough. So tell him it is his decision to go to seminary or not, but that he is responsible for telling people that it is his own decision and he does not have to give in to social pressure. His choice.

As for your girls, that is your husbands job to tell his mother not to bad mouth their mother around them ever. That pink hair is not the hill that you and your husband decided to die on, and to back off and let you and spouseman be the parents. She raised her kids, and these are not her kids. He needs to own his own parenting choices to his mother, not let you be the bad mother in his mother's eyes. Unless he wants to be the parent who forbids pink hair and have the girls resent him for the control. Grandmother may not understand how common the pink, green, or purple hair is now days. It is the everybody is doing it of today and it is not good to fight the things that their peers are doing, when really there are much worse things they can do besides refuse to follow the style when grandma was young.

alas wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:16 pm Just tell spouseman that you already finished up your crap, but now his family and his church are dumping crap all over you, so you had to run and sit on the pot so they cannot dump it all over your head. Then tell him how HIS mother is undermining your parenting, and how his brother is using his relationship with your son to get the kid back in seminary where he can't get enough sleep and it was ruining his health. Tell him that if he wants you to leave the church alone, the church (and its members) has to leave you alone. But it isn't going to do that.

I don't know, that is probably too inflammatory.

Part of the problem is that the church assumes that when a parent leaves the church, they still know it is true deep in their heart, so of course they want their children involved.

So, more realistic tactic. Your son has to learn to stick up for himself sooner or later and he is probably old enough. So tell him it is his decision to go to seminary or not, but that he is responsible for telling people that it is his own decision and he does not have to give in to social pressure. His choice.

As for your girls, that is your husbands job to tell his mother not to bad mouth their mother around them ever. That pink hair is not the hill that you and your husband decided to die on, and to back off and let you and spouseman be the parents. She raised her kids, and these are not her kids. He needs to own his own parenting choices to his mother, not let you be the bad mother in his mother's eyes. Unless he wants to be the parent who forbids pink hair and have the girls resent him for the control. Grandmother may not understand how common the pink, green, or purple hair is now days. It is the everybody is doing it of today and it is not good to fight the things that their peers are doing, when really there are much worse things they can do besides refuse to follow the style when grandma was young.

I literally did use the line, "people can leave the church, but the church won't leave them alone". The fundamental issue for me is my children's weddings. I refuse to not be present. I'm probably fairly inflammatory...

I am planning a heart to heart with my son, (who does not believe in the church), that the bishop has only as much authority as he gives him, and he does not have to report for any interview or appointment he doesn't wish to have. He also does not need to attend alone, unless he wishes to, he can bring me, his dad, or a leader of his choice. Or whoever else he darn well pleases.

Grandma is a passive aggressive asshole. Spouseman has confronted her over the years, but she just keeps on. When I confront her, she cries, apologizes, and keeps doing it. As for the hair -- it was "crazy hair day" at school, and the color will wash out in 2 weeks. It's a moronic thing to be upset about, and I put it in their hair. This is me taking my children to hell in a handbasket. I did articulate to Spouseman that the reason I've said she will try to break up our marriage if I get off the pot is this -- she already doesn't respect me and undermines me around my children who are trending toward hating her for being a harpy, not toward judging me.

Little does she know my 13yo is planning a second earring...and I'm looking at a Daith. Hee hee. (This makes me 12 years old but I want to stick it to her, plus I do get migraines).

It's becoming clear that I can't just quietly fade without being dive bombed. Spouseman knows the issues but I think changing his mental set and subsequently his lifestyle and unleashing grandma to full demon mode is too much for him, but I also don't think he's really thought that option through for himself.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:03 pm

alas wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:16 pm Just tell spouseman that you already finished up your crap, but now his family and his church are dumping crap all over you, so you had to run and sit on the pot so they cannot dump it all over your head. Then tell him how HIS mother is undermining your parenting, and how his brother is using his relationship with your son to get the kid back in seminary where he can't get enough sleep and it was ruining his health. Tell him that if he wants you to leave the church alone, the church (and its members) has to leave you alone. But it isn't going to do that.

I don't know, that is probably too inflammatory.

Part of the problem is that the church assumes that when a parent leaves the church, they still know it is true deep in their heart, so of course they want their children involved.

So, more realistic tactic. Your son has to learn to stick up for himself sooner or later and he is probably old enough. So tell him it is his decision to go to seminary or not, but that he is responsible for telling people that it is his own decision and he does not have to give in to social pressure. His choice.

As for your girls, that is your husbands job to tell his mother not to bad mouth their mother around them ever. That pink hair is not the hill that you and your husband decided to die on, and to back off and let you and spouseman be the parents. She raised her kids, and these are not her kids. He needs to own his own parenting choices to his mother, not let you be the bad mother in his mother's eyes. Unless he wants to be the parent who forbids pink hair and have the girls resent him for the control. Grandmother may not understand how common the pink, green, or purple hair is now days. It is the everybody is doing it of today and it is not good to fight the things that their peers are doing, when really there are much worse things they can do besides refuse to follow the style when grandma was young.

I literally did use the line, "people can leave the church, but the church won't leave them alone". The fundamental issue for me is my children's weddings. I refuse to not be present. I'm probably fairly inflammatory...

I am planning a heart to heart with my son, (who does not believe in the church), that the bishop has only as much authority as he gives him, and he does not have to report for any interview or appointment he doesn't wish to have. He also does not need to attend alone, unless he wishes to, he can bring me, his dad, or a leader of his choice. Or whoever else he darn well pleases.

Grandma is a passive aggressive asshole. Spouseman has confronted her over the years, but she just keeps on. When I confront her, she cries, apologizes, and keeps doing it. As for the hair -- it was "crazy hair day" at school, and the color will wash out in 2 weeks. It's a moronic thing to be upset about, and I put it in their hair. This is me taking my children to hell in a handbasket. I did articulate to Spouseman that the reason I've said she will try to break up our marriage if I get off the pot is this -- she already doesn't respect me and undermines me around my children who are trending toward hating her for being a harpy, not toward judging me.

Little does she know my 13yo is planning a second earring...and I'm looking at a Daith. Hee hee. (This makes me 12 years old but I want to stick it to her, plus I do get migraines).

It's becoming clear that I can't just quietly fade without being dive bombed. Spouseman knows the issues but I think changing his mental set and subsequently his lifestyle and unleashing grandma to full demon mode is too much for him, but I also don't think he's really thought that option through for himself.

Your MIL sounds like mine. My oldest got the worst of her bad mouthing me and never forgave her. She knew the truth about the situation MIL was badmouthing me over and she was SO angry.

So, I take back any advice about your husband standing up to the witch. It will not work. Nothing reasonable is going to work.

I learned to let my MILs bad mouthing roll off my back as her problem that eventually everyone was going to see through. She only got to me once and that was when she bad mouthed her own son, to me, his wife. But it did hurt my kids that she talked like some people walked on water, but could never say a nice thing about others. She would go on and on about the water walking cousins and pay no attention to the child in front of her for anything but as audience. She never listened to what was going on in their lives.

I do understand about wanting to be there for weddings. It is hard to stay in for things like that. Of course the church knows it keeps parents active and keeps people paying tithing, so there is no way the church is going to change.

I did kind of did what you are doing and stayed active under the radar, but I didn't even talk to DH about it. But it confused my kids. They could kind of see (well the most sensitive of them) that I didn't buy into to all of Mormonism, but didn't dare really talk to me either. So, I am not sure that keeping disbelief from kids is the best approach, and your spouseman is much more accepting of your disbelief than mine would have been at the time.

So, what I am wondering is that if being more open with the kids about your disbelief might be your best approach to being at their weddings. Perhaps if you are openly out (at least with them) then you could be more open about options other than temple weddings.

It's hard either way, and I am still not sure my approach was best, or if being more open about being out would have been best.

5. Spouseman is reluctant to teach the Jacob polygamy lesson this week. Hmmm.

6. Nephew appears to be close to engagement, which will mean a temple wedding and a recommend interview.

7. Spousemans uncle died so a funeral this weekend that I do not think I can stand. Mormon funerals are painful and a disservice to the deceased and family.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:52 am 2.MIL is policing my girls more and more, including "if I were your mother, you would not be..." comments. About school dances and pink hair streaks and "oh my gosh" statements. I told Spouseman to talk to his parents and be clear that,

a. If you want a relationship where your grandchild can come to you when they're feeling bad, don't say things that make them feel bad. They will go to people who make them feel good.

Interesting times ahead, I'm sure. Grandparents often enjoy a place of unusual influence on their grandchildren, but this relationship is not automatic, not guaranteed, and often diminishes as children get older.

Your mother-in-law is not on NOM (or is she...) but I can relate an event that may be in the future for your mother-in-law. My mother-in-law has had a very difficult time when my Lesbian daughter married her girlfriend. It was fascinating to see how the LDS trauma of having an LGBT grandchild was compounded by quickly (and painfully) discovering that her influence over that grandchild dropped to zero. One attempt at proclaiming and testifying the policies of the church was met with polite, but firm, disagreement.

This has been reflected in the other eight grandchildren. They all like their Lesbian cousin and sibling They have front row seats to the ham handed attempts to shore up the spirituality by Grandma and Grandpa. This may be culminating in the gathering for the grandparent's 50th wedding anniversary this summer.

Corsair wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:00 am

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:52 am 2.MIL is policing my girls more and more, including "if I were your mother, you would not be..." comments. About school dances and pink hair streaks and "oh my gosh" statements. I told Spouseman to talk to his parents and be clear that,

a. If you want a relationship where your grandchild can come to you when they're feeling bad, don't say things that make them feel bad. They will go to people who make them feel good.

Interesting times ahead, I'm sure. Grandparents often enjoy a place of unusual influence on their grandchildren, but this relationship is not automatic, not guaranteed, and often diminishes as children get older.

Your mother-in-law is not on NOM (or is she...) but I can relate an event that may be in the future for your mother-in-law. My mother-in-law has had a very difficult time when my Lesbian daughter married her girlfriend. It was fascinating to see how the LDS trauma of having an LGBT grandchild was compounded by quickly (and painfully) discovering that her influence over that grandchild dropped to zero. One attempt at proclaiming and testifying the policies of the church was met with polite, but firm, disagreement.

This has been reflected in the other eight grandchildren. They all like their Lesbian cousin and sibling They have front row seats to the ham handed attempts to shore up the spirituality by Grandma and Grandpa. This may be culminating in the gathering for the grandparent's 50th wedding anniversary this summer.

I would love to see my MIL react to my nephew coming out, but I don't think he ever will have the courage.