NOM

For those of you who have not seen the movie “Room”, this post will contain some spoilers. You’ve been warned.

I watched this movie on a Delta flight a few months ago. It is an incredible movie that I felt had some ties to a faith transition that I wanted to discuss. This is related to something I’m still trying to work through in my own transition, one of the things I still struggle with right now.

Do not read below this line if you don’t want any movie spoilers.
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For those who have seen the movie (or those that don’t care about these spoilers), let me just summarize the basic beginning plot. A mother and her son are trapped in a room by someone that kidnapped the mother long ago and abuses her. The son is born as a result of the sexual abuse. The room has one small skylight in the ceiling. Everything is done in the one room, eating, sleeping, bathing, TV, etc. The room is actually just a shed in the backyard of the abuser’s home.

The mother teaches her son that everything within room is real, and many of the things he sees on TV are not real, not trees, or the sea, and that their food comes from the TV magically. That there is just room and outer space. She does this probably to protect him and she says because he was too young to understand the truth. The abuser starts to have financial issues and the mother finally decides that it might be time for the boy to escape, so she begins to tell him that she had been lying to him about the room. That the things she said were not real are actually real, that dogs and trees are real. The boy becomes angry and doesn’t believe her, at least at first.

This is the part I wanted to talk about. When I watched that part, I felt like I might be like the mother because I’ve been lying to our kids about the church (the room), in order to protect them from the "world". I now know better. I want our kids to know what I now believe. I don’t want to have to tell them later and get the angry reaction from them. They would have every right to be angry, because I had essentially lied to them. I’m torn about with what to do. DW doesn’t want me to say anything.

Am I trying to protect my kids like the mother in the room or am I protecting DW and/or myself? At what point are they old enough to know what I believe now? How do I even go about saying anything that doesn’t upset DW?

By the way, the part when the boy escapes in the back of the truck was amazing. It made me feel the spirit.

Deepthinker wrote:...This is the part I wanted to talk about. When I watched that part, I felt like I might be like the mother because I’ve been lying to our kids about the church (the room), in order to protect them from the "world". I now know better. I want our kids to know what I now believe. I don’t want to have to tell them later and get the angry reaction from them. They would have every right to be angry, because I had essentially lied to them. I’m torn about with what to do. DW doesn’t want me to say anything.

Am I trying to protect my kids like the mother in the room or am I protecting DW and/or myself? At what point are they old enough to know what I believe now? How do I even go about saying anything that doesn’t upset DW?

By the way, the part when the boy escapes in the back of the truck was amazing. It made me feel the spirit.

Seems like an intense movie, and I can see some parallels with this in faith evolving and in figuring out how to approach Mormonism with our kids.

We have a book about comparing believing in Santa Clause and believing in Christ. I loved believing in Santa - it felt so magical and I didn't want to deprive my kids of that fun and imagination. Yet, I also didn't want them to distrust me - so when they've asked, I've focused on "the spirit of Santa" and "the spirit of Christmas" and how they inspire us to love and feel loved.

With the church, I'm trying to remind them to "take the best and leave the rest" - to embrace good standards (don't drink or smoke) - yet if they wanted to try it I'd let them & I've explained how they probably would think it tasted disgusting. I've been more open about sexuality - I don't want them to feel ashamed as I did - yet I also think it's important to be responsible in that way too. We have FHE every week and I encourage them to write in their journals. I tell them that the temple is a beautiful place and does have some good things it teaches, but unfortunately it's being used to make money and break families apart ironically from a church that is supposedly about "eternal families."

It's tough - no perfect place to raise kids. Parts of UT are good in some ways - (no gangs, peer pressure to be good rather than bad) - yet in other ways - the peer pressure to go along with dysfunctional group thought isn't so good. Maybe the best approach is to teach our kids to think for themselves, and at the same time to keep a healthy faith - motivation and enthusiasm for life.

I haven't seen the movie but read below the line anyway. Sometimes I think we (the disaffected) over think every little detail because we've turned our minds on and have allowed ourselves to turn over every stone.

I've struggled with the same dilemma. Should I tell the kids or not? I've determined that I don't need to make it an event and sit them down and tell them where I stand. Not while the wife is holding to her faith. If we were both out then I would 100% sit them down and tell them.

However, since we have to tread carefully to maintain the TBM relationships I've decided to focus my energy teaching the kids how to think critically and see past Mormonism while maintaining a cultural identity and heritage.

I think this long game approach sucks and it's exhausting but it's working. My oldest constantly refers to the "Mormon kids" in her school which is followed by complaints of judgementalism, closed mindedness, and annoyance. The wife calls her on it reminding her she is also mormon. She responds "yeah, but I'm nothing like them." My other kids will talk about gay marriage and say they see nothing wrong with it. They don't see the church as a way of life but rather the place we spend 3 excruciatingly boring hours on Sunday mornings.

The long game will win out in the end because the mormon product itself is fundamentally bad and dishonest. The church can't compete with its own history. Not when teenagers are learning the founding prophet was marrying teenagers. Nothing the church can say or teach will take that weird factor away.

This 100%

Newme wrote:Maybe the best approach is to teach our kids to think for themselves, and at the same time to keep a healthy faith - motivation and enthusiasm for life.

This was a great movie and appreciate your analogy. I had thought similar things when we watched it. The transition after the escape was painful as her life wasn't magically better or normal just because she got out. She was forever changed and dealing with mental challenges because of the experience. Similar things happen after a FC as well.

Newme, tell me about the Santa Claus book. That was how I framed my FC/transition to my parents and DW. I learned SC wasn't real, but still love the spirit of Christmas. Similarly I still like the good in Mormonism even though I don't believe the same. I would love the name of that book.

Newme wrote: We have a book about comparing believing in Santa Clause and believing in Christ. I loved believing in Santa - it felt so magical and I didn't want to deprive my kids of that fun and imagination. Yet, I also didn't want them to distrust me - so when they've asked, I've focused on "the spirit of Santa" and "the spirit of Christmas" and how they inspire us to love and feel loved.

MalcolmVillager wrote:This was a great movie and appreciate your analogy. I had thought similar things when we watched it. The transition after the escape was painful as her life wasn't magically better or normal just because she got out. She was forever changed and dealing with mental challenges because of the experience. Similar things happen after a FC as well.

Newme, tell me about the Santa Claus book. That was how I framed my FC/transition to my parents and DW. I learned SC wasn't real, but still love the spirit of Christmas. Similarly I still like the good in Mormonism even though I don't believe the same. I would love the name of that book.

Newme wrote: We have a book about comparing believing in Santa Clause and believing in Christ. I loved believing in Santa - it felt so magical and I didn't want to deprive my kids of that fun and imagination. Yet, I also didn't want them to distrust me - so when they've asked, I've focused on "the spirit of Santa" and "the spirit of Christmas" and how they inspire us to love and feel loved.

I'm glad it intereted you!
It's a picture book https://www.amazon.com/Believe-Santa-Cl ... 0967357101
I no longer believe in orthodox Christianity but I still like many symbols and parables of Christ.
Maybe Santa is one step for concrete believers to begin to consider spirituality... Jesus another...

Here's some irony--the boy in "Room" is LDS. His grandparents have been our good friends for years. They're the most agreeable TBMs you could ever hope to meet. The movie is very good, and I can highly recommend the book as well. I'm just glad that Jake's parents are open minded enough to let him be in the film. I know plenty of TBMs who aren't and wouldn't.

vankimber wrote:Here's some irony--the boy in "Room" is LDS. His grandparents have been our good friends for years. They're the most agreeable TBMs you could ever hope to meet. The movie is very good, and I can highly recommend the book as well. I'm just glad that Jake's parents are open minded enough to let him be in the film. I know plenty of TBMs who aren't and wouldn't.

That is some delicious irony. It would be further joy if he grows up and leaves the church then uses the metaphors of this movie as the framework for how he left.

The book was very good (read it last year), much better than the film. It was one of the better fiction reads I've had in a while.

Newme wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:27 am

Deepthinker wrote:...This is the part I wanted to talk about. When I watched that part, I felt like I might be like the mother because I’ve been lying to our kids about the church (the room), in order to protect them from the "world". I now know better. I want our kids to know what I now believe. I don’t want to have to tell them later and get the angry reaction from them. They would have every right to be angry, because I had essentially lied to them. I’m torn about with what to do. DW doesn’t want me to say anything.

Am I trying to protect my kids like the mother in the room or am I protecting DW and/or myself? At what point are they old enough to know what I believe now? How do I even go about saying anything that doesn’t upset DW?

By the way, the part when the boy escapes in the back of the truck was amazing. It made me feel the spirit.

Seems like an intense movie, and I can see some parallels with this in faith evolving and in figuring out how to approach Mormonism with our kids.

We have a book about comparing believing in Santa Clause and believing in Christ. I loved believing in Santa - it felt so magical and I didn't want to deprive my kids of that fun and imagination. Yet, I also didn't want them to distrust me - so when they've asked, I've focused on "the spirit of Santa" and "the spirit of Christmas" and how they inspire us to love and feel loved.

With the church, I'm trying to remind them to "take the best and leave the rest" - to embrace good standards (don't drink or smoke) - yet if they wanted to try it I'd let them & I've explained how they probably would think it tasted disgusting. I've been more open about sexuality - I don't want them to feel ashamed as I did - yet I also think it's important to be responsible in that way too. We have FHE every week and I encourage them to write in their journals. I tell them that the temple is a beautiful place and does have some good things it teaches, but unfortunately it's being used to make money and break families apart ironically from a church that is supposedly about "eternal families."

It's tough - no perfect place to raise kids. Parts of UT are good in some ways - (no gangs, peer pressure to be good rather than bad) - yet in other ways - the peer pressure to go along with dysfunctional group thought isn't so good. Maybe the best approach is to teach our kids to think for themselves, and at the same time to keep a healthy faith - motivation and enthusiasm for life.

Thanks, some good advice. I think they know I'm not the standard believing Mormon. We've talked about their gay uncle and that there is nothing wrong with who he is, that he's a good person, etc.

vankimber wrote: ↑Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:23 pm Here's some irony--the boy in "Room" is LDS. His grandparents have been our good friends for years. They're the most agreeable TBMs you could ever hope to meet. The movie is very good, and I can highly recommend the book as well. I'm just glad that Jake's parents are open minded enough to let him be in the film. I know plenty of TBMs who aren't and wouldn't.

Wow! I had no idea.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:25 pm The book was very good (read it last year), much better than the film. It was one of the better fiction reads I've had in a while.

I'm going to have to look into the book.

Deepthinker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2017 8:49 am

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:25 pm The book was very good (read it last year), much better than the film. It was one of the better fiction reads I've had in a while.

I'm going to have to look into the book.

I found it particularly moving in part because it is narrated by a five year old boy and I read it when my own son was five. I enjoyed seeing a portrayal of the world from that view and thought the author did an excellent job with it.