Page 1 of 2
Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:46 pm
by Hagoth
NOTE: This is not intended to be a political discussion, so please let's not let it wander off topic. I'm just trying to figure out what it is about Mormons that would explain this. It must be fundamentally doctrinal, which is why I posted here.
Polls show that Mormons approve of Trump at a higher rate than any other religious group:
http://news.gallup.com/poll/225380/tru ... slims.aspx
I find it fascinating that there was such an outcry from LDS people about Trump's sexist and racist talk and behavior during his campaign and first year of his presidency, but somehow that's all been forgotten that and now he's AOK with most Mormons. Mormons also gave Obama the lowest rating of any religious group.
It doesn't surprise me that Mormons give high approval ratings for Republicans and low ratings for Democrats but I am having a hard time understanding this specific spread in anything other than racist terms. You would think that Bill Clinton, having been caught red handed "not having sexual rations with that woman" would strike a deeper chord for Mormons, but there was nothing like that in Obama's presidency. Just the opposite. He was a paragon of virtue compared to our current p***y-grabbing president.
Please help me understand this weird corner of Mormon thinking.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:05 pm
by mooseman
Few things.
1, you dont speak bad about your leaders, even if its true. Obama, Clinton, et al arent "their" leaders but as card carrying republicans, Trump is.
2. Trump drives liberals crazy. Since Mormonism is a white patriarchy, most of what he does doesnt affect the average member so far, so they dint see the harm. The fact people who have been "after" them about civil rights, marriage equality ect are having a fit makes the tbm smile--kind if like finding out the jerk at the gym got fired. Its not christlike, but you feel it serves them right.
3.rural utah mormons love hes giving them "back their land" instead of piling on more regulations. Most see the state as superior to the nation, so letting utah do its thing , no matter how stupid, makes them feel trump.cares for them.
What bothered them about Clinton (at least my dad) was that it was ORAL sex, which prophets had declared as immoral and evil. That put it right up there with anal sex which only homos do, and abortion and thus a mockery of sacred procreation powers.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:33 pm
by 1smartdodog
Because he pushes a conservative agenda and Mormons tend to be conservative.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:54 pm
by deacon blues
Mormons are more homogeneous than most of the other groups in the survey, which might partly explain it. However 61% just makes me sick. Who are these people? My medium conservative, mostly TBM wife does NOT like Trump at all. Mooseman (above) has it pegged.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:06 pm
by wtfluff
1smartdodog wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:33 pmBecause he pushes a conservative agenda and Mormons tend to be conservative.
I think it really is as simple as this. Conservative / Republican. They' can't fathom supporting anything else, just like they can't fathom that "the church" might not be true. "That's just the way it is, it's always been that way... No reason to think for ones's self."
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:42 pm
by Hagoth
I would like to see a similar pole about viewers of Fox News and NPR by religious affiliation and see if there is as strong a correlation.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:02 pm
by nibbler
Further down in the study:
White, non-Hispanic Protestants (70% of all Protestants): 60% approval rating
White Catholics: 51% approval rating
Maybe the study is just showing that Mormons are more white than most religions
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:07 pm
by Palerider
I'm not sure I can respond to this without it being somewhat political.
By way of explanation, I was really repulsed by Trump in the primaries. What a gutter fighter and poorly spoken individual. There is nothing statesmanlike about Trump.
But after the election, it seems that he's actually DOING a lot of the things that conservatives would like to see accomplished and he's calling out many of the RHINOs like McCain, Flake and Romney who don't care for Trump's "junkyard dog" style but they themselves were quite statemanlike in their ability to water down conservative values and sidestep the really hard decisions. Essentially they were/are gutless wonders who allowed themselves to be guilt tripped by extreme leftists. They spoke eloquently and weaseled like cowards.
As for Mormons, I think they have been pleasantly surprised by Trump's agenda at the same time as they are chagrined and embarrassed at his style. But hey! The guy is actually DOING something. And I think that means a great deal to Mormons. Especially after years and years of watching church leaders who act much more like the Flakes and Romneys. They're great tap dancers.
After the savage beating the Romneys and their church cronies gave Trump in Utah, I actually see it as a defiant act by the general membership to go against their idolized movers,shakers and "never Trumpers" in the Mormon community by approving of Trump. To me that's a show of independent thinking. Mormons are actually responding positively to a results based situation instead of having to swallow camels while straining at gnats. They're telling the high and mighties to take a hike. .
Imagine that! A leader who actually does what he says he's going to do.
The man is no Abraham Lincoln...far from it. But whether one hates or loves Trump policies, no one can say he isn't getting it done.
If conservative Republicans had done their job and had a spine, a man like Trump would not have been elected.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:13 pm
by nibbler
Serious question: what is he doing that's so great (in the eyes of your average conservative)?
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:44 pm
by Palerider
Obamacare could have been repealed and replaced with something more efficient, less intrusive, and fiscally responsible except for recalcitrant Republicans. Thus Trump is having to dismantle some of the more agregious parts piecemeal. But he's getting it done.
Conservatives believe the new tax law will get the government's hands out of our pockets so deeply.
Reduction of regulation is encouraging investment in the stockmarket. I think conservatives are enjoying seeing the market take off.
Money that has been financially "stored" by American companies in foreign countries is coming back to the US to help the economy.
Illegal immigration is finally being seriously addressed.
Government overreach in land use regulations is being reduced. (Utahn's love that.)
There's more. But then....this wasn't supposed to be a political thread.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:35 pm
by Brent
Because they are imprinted to respect old, out of touch white guys.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:42 pm
by Not Buying It
Some of them voted for him solely over the issue of abortion. I know several members who did. They have had to deal with the cognitive dissonance of having voted for such a reprehensible human being - which they resolved by deciding he’s really not that reprehensible.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:31 pm
by Thoughtful
I do not understand it. I live in a small, conservative town and the overt racism that's come out of the woodwork is horrifying. Several of my clients have had a parent deported. One is testifying against an abuser, there's a rift in the family because she blew the whistle, and the angry relatives called INS on her father for revenge.
That my LDS family who are good people voted for this is beyond me. They put their theory about what it would do for their pocketbook ahead of what it did TO women, minorities, and the poor.
My TBM husband feels its wrong and didn't vote for him, but as to the outcome just shrugs, "I can't change it so won't worry about it. " After all, it doesn't affect him. Its been an issue in our marriage as its extremely personal to me.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:28 am
by moksha
Blood is thicker than water and politics is thicker than religion. Utah is a place where Trump's approval rating has increased since the election.
How about this as another platitude: Mormons care not about the arts, sciences, and philosophies of men; they are interested in the business ledgers. Even though Trump is the loose cannon President he is still the devil that they know and can transact business with, such as the give away of public land in the reduction of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument. Mormons have pushed for local ownership of federal land for many decades and Trump delivered it to them.
Now that Trump will be able to commence the dissolution of United States, the Kingdom of Deseret can once again take its place as the rightful theocracy of the Great Basin. The Salt Lake Temple can fulfill the purpose of a majestic castle. Perhaps South Temple can be converted into a decorative moat and stocked with City Creek trout. Definitely, the red chairs on the front row of the dais in the Conference Center will need to be recovered in purple velvet.
Hope this was on-track per Hagoth's request.
Wonder if some of those mission field countries will object to Trump calling them s***holes?
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:56 pm
by moksha
I don't get how people say Trump is a racist. Just because of his numerous remarks over the last four decades? I mean, he might have referred to some countries whose residents have a bit darker skin as s***holes, but would anyone call that racist who worked at the Church Office Building?
He also publically wished out loud that all our immigrants could come from Norway and be like the little Norwegian children, but that is only because Trump loves the little Norwegian children for their pure and delightsome skin color. How could people dare say that was racist? Did anybody make that charge against that guy from WWII who flew all the way from Berlin to visit Norway and made an identical remark about the little Norwegian children?
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:13 am
by RubinHighlander
So Trump has been getting hammered about his S. Africa comment this past week. I heard an interview with him this morning:
Trump - "I'm not a racists. I'm the least racists person you will ever interview."
WTF!?
Kind of sounds like apologetics. Or, I guess if it was apologetics, it would be more like "How can anyone even know I'm racists?"
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:30 am
by Linked
nibbler wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:02 pm
Further down in the study:
White, non-Hispanic Protestants (70% of all Protestants): 60% approval rating
White Catholics: 51% approval rating
Maybe the study is just showing that Mormons are more white than most religions
I was going to bring this up as well, but with a different conclusion. Mormons are at 61%, and ALL White - non-Hispanic Protestants are at 60%. This includes both mainline AND evangelical protestants. I am 100% certain that if this broke out evangelical protestants they would be significantly more pro-trump than mormons. Also, 61% approval for a republican president is very low for mormons, typically that number is around 80%. So mormons are ~20% lower in approval for Trump than they would be for another republican. If Pence ever dethrones Trump I imagine those numbers would go right back up. This shows that mormons really do have an issue with him doctrinally.
As to why it is as high as 61%? Based on Palerider's post I am pretty sure we differ politically, but his analysis is spot on. When Trump was running he was a morally bankrupt wildcard outsider. He has governed as a morally bankrupt conservative outsider. Mormons generally LOVE the conservative part, and they like the outsider part. But they still have to deal with the morally bankrupt part. So you get pretty high approval, but not as high as an average republican leader.
It's more complicated than that, but I think those are the biggest drivers in a mormon's view of Trump.
I understand we were supposed to answer doctrinally, but this situation is almost entirely political.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:27 pm
by nibbler
Thanks for the input.
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:52 pm
by Reuben
My independent but Republican-ish (very "ish") leaning wife basically said the same thing as Palerider.
TBM Reuben of yesteryear (who still occupies a very small space in my head) points to a scripture in Ether about a king who "did justice unto the people, but not unto himself because of his many whoredoms."
Re: Why do Mormons give Trump the highest approval rating?
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:00 pm
by 1smartdodog
Palerider wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:07 pm
I'm not sure I can respond to this without it being somewhat political.
By way of explanation, I was really repulsed by Trump in the primaries. What a gutter fighter and poorly spoken individual. There is nothing statesmanlike about Trump.
But after the election, it seems that he's actually DOING a lot of the things that conservatives would like to see accomplished and he's calling out many of the RHINOs like McCain, Flake and Romney who don't care for Trump's "junkyard dog" style but they themselves were quite statemanlike in their ability to water down conservative values and sidestep the really hard decisions. Essentially they were/are gutless wonders who allowed themselves to be guilt tripped by extreme leftists. They spoke eloquently and weaseled like cowards.
As for Mormons, I think they have been pleasantly surprised by Trump's agenda at the same time as they are chagrined and embarrassed at his style. But hey! The guy is actually DOING something. And I think that means a great deal to Mormons. Especially after years and years of watching church leaders who act much more like the Flakes and Romneys. They're great tap dancers.
After the savage beating the Romneys and their church cronies gave Trump in Utah, I actually see it as a defiant act by the general membership to go against their idolized movers,shakers and "never Trumpers" in the Mormon community by approving of Trump. To me that's a show of independent thinking. Mormons are actually responding positively to a results based situation instead of having to swallow camels while straining at gnats. They're telling the high and mighties to take a hike. .
Imagine that! A leader who actually does what he says he's going to do.
The man is no Abraham Lincoln...far from it. But whether one hates or loves Trump policies, no one can say he isn't getting it done.
If conservative Republicans had done their job and had a spine, a man like Trump would not have been elected.
Exactly. People hate Trump but he is probably the most genuine president we have had. What you see is what you get. You may hate it but he is not hiding his agenda.