NOM

Just reflecting on why I was drawn to the LDS church in the first place, as I was not born in Utah, had never known anyone from Utah before meeting my husband, had never known a mormon before him.

For me personally, I believe there is a reason, purpose, intention behind everything that happens in life and it's up to me to figure out what that purpose is and to learn something from it / benefit from what I've learned in some way.

Looking back now, I see that the purpose behind me joining the church, allowing myself to get caught up in the momentum of it all was for me to eventually find out it was false, that I had allowed myself to be guided by other people who, while meant well, were pressuring me to be someone I really wasn't and to believe things I really didn't. I feel truly sad that I allowed myself to get that deep into it without spending much time to research the "truth" of it all and to examine how I truly felt about everything. I preferred to just go with the flow because it felt so good to be around such good people. They must know what they're doing right? Everyone's so awesome!

I am truly so thankful for my experience with the church, even thought it has been quite painful leaving. I had been searching for some time before I became a member. I was raised Christian and had a bad taste in my mouth from that experience and I suppose I was seeking something better, but similar and familiar and lo and behold I meet my husband and after subtle pressure from he and his sister, started lessons with the missionaries. It escalated from there.

I now see that I was meant to listen to my inner voice telling me that there was something wrong, something "off" even if I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I can now say I will never abandon my own inner guidance like that ever again, no matter how much I want to sometimes. I believe my experience with the church was to show to me what can happen when I do not listen to my own inner wisdom and follow my own path, even if it's hard and even if other people will think (realize?) I'm a weirdo.

Anyway, just something really big for me that I recently realized and wanted to share. What do you think your purpose was in joining the church and leaving (or staying)? Thanks for reading.

My ancestors bought Josephs tale back in Europe and sailed across and then made their way to Utah and some to California. So I was born into the church. I resigned at age 63. Up to that point for the most part I was a devoted TBM. Did the temple marriage, and had the boat load of kids. I am divorced now and all but two have left the church. Reading the Mark Hoffman story was the final straw that sent me down the rabbit hole and out into the light. I have no regrets.

No matter what path lead us to where we are now the one thing that is most important is to figure out how we were duped in the first place so that we never fall for anything like this again. This was a hard concept for me to understand in the beginning. I studied everything I could get my hands on and still something just didn't seem right. Reading the book 7 Laws of Magical Thinking: How Irrational Beliefs Keep Us Happy, Healthy, and Sane by Matthew Hutson was the pivotal point for me and set me on the course I am on now. Also understanding that "truth" doesn't always give us those warm fuzzing feelings we are taught in Sunday school helped me recognize the effect of what I read and hear has on me. That too was hard for me to grasp because up to that point in my life I had always done just that and based my decisions on how good it made me feel. Now I know "truth" can hurt. Taking the time to ask the right questions and know where to find the answers is my go to now. Leaving the church at 63 or any age is hard. There were many days I didn't think I'd make it out alive.... but I did thanks to great support from forums such as NOM and some very amazing people who I met along the way.

I wouldn't beat yourself up to much about your decision to join the church. In the beginning when I discovered it was all a sham I did the same. I had huge regrets especially over having dragged a whole boat load a children through this church but then I realized if not for this journey I would not be where I am today. I have met wonderful people, found new interests and seen the world through new eyes that would never have been possible had I not learned the real truth about the church. Great post e1986!

a1986 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:11 amWhat do you think your purpose was in joining the church and leaving (or staying)?

I was born into it. I don't feel that it was ever a choice for me. Most of the major decisions of my life were planned out for me before I was born.

I guess my being "mormon" was simply, the random luck of the universe. Honestly, the events that lead me to discover the whitewashed version of mormonism I was taught my entire life were random luck also.

I'll be completely surprised if I ever figure out a purpose for why I was born into mormonism, or any, real purpose for why I was lucky(?) enough to leave. Or, in mormon-speak: I'll figure out the grand purpose of all this when I die...

I was BIC. But it sure never had a purpose.

BIC.

I think for me the good that came of the church was:
Stable home and family life as a kid.
Married a great guy I would not have otherwise met.
Lots of teachings challenged me to really think about what is "right" and there was definitely one class at BYU that forced me to look at implications of any argument and question them. (Which ultimately contributed to my shelf breaking).

An interesting thought that I had a few years ago is that I would not exist at all if not for the LDS Church. (My parents would not have met.) Beyond that, I've benefited significantly from my LDS upbringing, from my perspective, regardless of the validity of any of the truth claims. Much of the good things in my life would not have happened without it.

Other good things might have happened, of course, but I can't help but think that they would have happened to someone else--I wouldn't be who I am at all without the particular experiences I've had.

I continue to participate, and I think that for me it's largely a matter of identity and community. If all is vanity, as we read in Ecclesiastes (and I suspect that this is the case) then I figure I'll stick with the vanity that I'm used to. Even if I approach it quite differently than I have in the past.

Ghost wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:33 pmAn interesting thought that I had a few years ago is that I would not exist at all if not for the LDS Church.

I find this argument interesting. If you did not exist, would you know it?

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:24 pm

Ghost wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:33 pmAn interesting thought that I had a few years ago is that I would not exist at all if not for the LDS Church.

I find this argument interesting. If you did not exist, would you know it?

What does "know" mean?

I stopped considering "I wouldn't exist if not X" statements as meaningful when I realized that X could be "that one sperm out of millions fertilized the egg." If I went back in time and stepped in front of my dad on the day I was conceived, my parents would almost certainly create a completely different person. The process is incredibly chaotic. I can credit the church for my existence, as I am, as much as I can credit traffic on a certain day in the 1970s.

(This assumes that "me" is comprised of genetics and environment. If we're dealing with souls, or qualia, or whatever, then everything is speculation anyway.)

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:24 pm I find this argument interesting. If you did not exist, would you know it?

I think that only the positive case works, unless Saturday's Warrior is actually true and we can be disappointed when we are not born in the time and place that we'd intended. If that couple had not had another child, would Jimmy's little sister never have been born at all, or would she have had to settle for another family? I guess there is that Brigham Young quote about spirits being driven into families of the wicked when righteous couples do not have as many children as they can.

Another thing I sure would have missed out on without my background in Mormonism is the the fun of thinking about the teachings, their implications, and how they have been interpreted through the years. Too bad the public statements of leaders have become more boring in my lifetime.

Ghost wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:33 pm
I continue to participate, and I think that for me it's largely a matter of identity and community. If all is vanity, as we read in Ecclesiastes (and I suspect that this is the case) then I figure I'll stick with the vanity that I'm used to. Even if I approach it quite differently than I have in the past.

That makes sense. I'm glad you have good connections with the community and mormon culture. Thanks for your reply.

I think the church overall helped me become something I like. This may have happened without the church for sure, but it didn't and here I am. The church has not been positive for me since my truth seeking, and the purpose of me being there now is to support a spouse who still feels benefits from being there.

Emower wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:47 pm I think the church overall helped me become something I like. This may have happened without the church for sure, but it didn't and here I am. The church has not been positive for me since my truth seeking, and the purpose of me being there now is to support a spouse who still feels benefits from being there.

This is where I am, except I'm not there on Sundays. The experience was becoming too negative.

The truth seeking I've done lately has been to understand better how humans think and relate, especially when they have great convictions or think very differently from each other. This is obviously very motivated by my faith transition. I don't think I would have had the impetus to study these things otherwise, or the opportunity to see them up close.

My faith transition also motivated these things:

• Forgiving people who are unknowingly engaged in organizational abuse against me. Relatedly, understanding the cycle of abuse in my family (which has been winding down over the generations, but now I can stop it earlier).
• Understanding gender and sexuality better, and how to deal with, respect, and celebrate differences.
• Communicating respectfully with people I strongly disagree with, even when I believe their modes of thought and language are harmful (still working on this!).
• Having a more intimate relationship with my wife.
• Rebuilding my identity into something I like better.

It's been huge leaning experience to be pushed to the boundary of an all-encompassing culture, walk along it, and then pop out the other side. It sucked donkey balls, but on most days, I'm glad it happened.

Emower wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:47 pm I think the church overall helped me become something I like. This may have happened without the church for sure, but it didn't and here I am. The church has not been positive for me since my truth seeking, and the purpose of me being there now is to support a spouse who still feels benefits from being there.

Awesome. I can relate to that--"helping me become something I like."

Reuben wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:35 am

Emower wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:47 pm I think the church overall helped me become something I like. This may have happened without the church for sure, but it didn't and here I am. The church has not been positive for me since my truth seeking, and the purpose of me being there now is to support a spouse who still feels benefits from being there.

This is where I am, except I'm not there on Sundays. The experience was becoming too negative.

The truth seeking I've done lately has been to understand better how humans think and relate, especially when they have great convictions or think very differently from each other. This is obviously very motivated by my faith transition. I don't think I would have had the impetus to study these things otherwise, or the opportunity to see them up close.

My faith transition also motivated these things:

• Forgiving people who are unknowingly engaged in organizational abuse against me. Relatedly, understanding the cycle of abuse in my family (which has been winding down over the generations, but now I can stop it earlier).
• Understanding gender and sexuality better, and how to deal with, respect, and celebrate differences.
• Communicating respectfully with people I strongly disagree with, even when I believe their modes of thought and language are harmful (still working on this!).
• Having a more intimate relationship with my wife.
• Rebuilding my identity into something I like better.

It's been huge leaning experience to be pushed to the boundary of an all-encompassing culture, walk along it, and then pop out the other side. It sucked donkey balls, but on most days, I'm glad it happened.

haha! Awesome. These sound like some really great experiences that came out of something that "sucked donkey balls"

Sounds like you are shaping yourself into one exceptional human being

Like 99% of the people in the world my religion was determined by where I was born. When asked I make it clear that my participation in the church is purely for the purpose of making sure my wife doesn't feel lonely in Sacrament Meeting.

a1986 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:01 pm

Emower wrote: ↑Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:47 pm I think the church overall helped me become something I like. This may have happened without the church for sure, but it didn't and here I am. The church has not been positive for me since my truth seeking, and the purpose of me being there now is to support a spouse who still feels benefits from being there.

Awesome. I can relate to that--"helping me become something I like."

I wish I could say the same, but honestly, for me at this point, I'd probably say the exact opposite.

that Brigham Young quote about spirits being driven into families of the wicked when righteous couples do not have as many children as they can

Wait, where do I find this nugget of wisdom? glad i never succumbed to the guilt of not having lots of kids. I love them but the ones i have are plenty.

As to the original question, BIC. And as someone else already commented, I have also contemplated how much of my life was mapped out from birth. I suppose this is true for everyone to an extent, but our map is rather detailed compared to some others.

LostGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:25 pm Wait, where do I find this nugget of wisdom?

I think I came across it in Doctrines of Salvation when I read that as a missionary. But it looks like it's been quoted in other conference talks and articles as well, such as this one:

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/02/scri ... y?lang=eng

There are multitudes of pure and holy spirits waiting to take tabernacles, now what is our duty?—To prepare tabernacles for them; to take a course that will not tend to drive those spirits into the families of the wicked, where they will be trained in wickedness, debauchery, and every species of crime. It is the duty of every righteous man and woman to prepare tabernacles for all the spirits they can.” (Discourses of Brigham Young [Deseret Book Co., 1943], p. 197.)

Hagoth wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:23 pm Like 99% of the people in the world my religion was determined by where I was born. When asked I make it clear that my participation in the church is purely for the purpose of making sure my wife doesn't feel lonely in Sacrament Meeting.

Now there's a difficult map for a colorblind guy to read.

Emower wrote: ↑Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:51 pm Now there's a difficult map for a colorblind guy to read.

Summary:
Hindus live in India
Mormons live in Utan