NOM

During our fifth sunday lesson this past week, my bishop did a bit of a year in review and then talked about things we should be focusing on as a ward in the upcoming year. The ward did a lot of geneology and missionary work this past year. His focus for this next year is to find the lost sheep. To rescue those that have made covenant and aren't active in the ward.

I actually really like my bishop. We're pretty close in age and he's generally just a really nice, fun guy. We've been golfing together. I was able to hook him up with some Hamilton tickets. We've had discussions about our fairly liberal politics. I just consider him one of my friends.

He knows my situation with the church. I was fairly open with another bishop in our stake before we moved into this ward a couple years ago. Since we're still in the same stake, my 1st bishop in this new ward talked to that previous bishop about me and I guess gave a bit of a summary of my position with the church. That 1st bishop moved out soon after we moved in, which is when my current bishop was called. I guess those bishops also talked about me, so my current bishop wanted to talk with me and asked me where I stood with the church so the ward could best accommodate/deal with me. He's a very sincere guy and I believe really did just want me to feel comfortable in the ward despite my lack of belief. I basically told him that don't really believe any of it but am there to support my wife and family.

I work in the cub scouts with my sons, don't pay tithing, don't have a home teaching assignment, and am not asked to speak or pray. I have no idea who else has talked about the state of my soul, and I don't really care. Some members keep their distance. Others are fine. And I keep my distance from some as well.

But this lesson has been bothering me all week. During the lesson, the bishop told a story of a family he was warned about from the previous bishop as being fairly hostile to the church. The new bishop has been scared to go and try and meet them. But as part of his new rescue plans, he committed to go and meet this family since he's responsible for them as long as they're on the rolls. He then made a comment about he'd let us know how terribly it goes.

The lesson was so off-putting. I already felt isolated enough in the ward, but now every interaction, every friendship will have me questioning the other party's motives. The rhetoric is just so divisive and condescending. All of us who are less active or breaking our covenants need saving. Need to be rescued. If I need to be rescued of anything, it's from a church that is toxic to my marriage.

To top all of this off, I found out that my wife had scheduled tithing settlement for right after church. We skipped it for a lot of years, but the last two she has scheduled it. I don't think she really wants me there because it's uncomfortable, but since she wants me present at church because it's a family thing, I'm not going to be excluded from tithing settlement. Funny thing is that the bishop know I didn't pay any tithing, but he was too scared to ask me to declare that out loud.

Why is it so hard for mormons to figure out that making someone a project only pushes them away further? People want genuine connection, not condescending interest conditioned on a return to active participation in the church?

shadow wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:36 pmThe rhetoric is just so divisive and condescending. All of us who are less active or breaking our covenants need saving. Need to be rescued. If I need to be rescued of anything, it's from a church that is toxic to my marriage.

Amen. This is my hatest thing about the church.

shadow wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:36 pmWhy is it so hard for mormons to figure out that making someone a project only pushes them away further? People want genuine connection, not condescending interest conditioned on a return to active participation in the church?

Because, without even bothering to learn your reasons, they have been indoctrinated to consider you as broken and needing to be fixed. If they "reach out" and you don't respond in the desired way they can check it off their list with a clear conscience and chalk it up to a hard heart. Those are the ones who care more about acting out their church role than they do about you, of course. The ones who are true friends don't need an outreach program to coax them into being friendly, they will just remain friends regardless of your degree of orthodoxy.

shadow wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:36 pm During the lesson, the bishop told a story of a family he was warned about from the previous bishop as being fairly hostile to the church. The new bishop has been scared to go and try and meet them. But as part of his new rescue plans, he committed to go and meet this family since he's responsible for them as long as they're on the rolls. He then made a comment about he'd let us know how terribly it goes.

Boundaries. The church doesn't respect them. I don't think it's malicious, it's just that as a culture we're completely clueless or even incapable of respecting boundaries.

There are as many reasons for going inactive as they're are inactive people but of the type that have expressed hostility towards the church I don't know what leaders believe they will accomplish by visiting them again. I can understand leaders visiting them in ignorance, not knowing the person's history at all; but it's hard to understand the continued visits when leaders know full well where someone stands.

It's probably a numbers game, in which case you check the box next to their name and leave them alone. That way both the people that care about the numbers and the people that don't want a visit are happy.

Inactive people know where the church is. If they wanted to come, they would... with a few exceptions:
1) I've met inactives that don't even remember being baptized. Likely members that joined the church decades ago and only attended up until the missionary that taught them was transferred to a new area. They might not know or even think to come back to church because none of their identity is tied to it.

2) People that don't have many social outlets and are looking to make friends but it's hard for them to take the initiative. Some welcome the attention they receive from being a ward project. What happens when the machine turns its sights on a new inactive family? But still, those people may benefit from continued visits and being a project.

And all it takes is one success story. One. Never mind that many rescue efforts may end in an inactive person becoming increasingly hostile towards the church. If one person comes back, the one success story will trump the dozens of horror stories.

Like others have said, the faithful truly feel like the inactive's soul is on the line. Rescuing them both saves the inactive and earns the rescuer some brownie points for heaven.

To the rescue is about imposing their view on you. You're not in danger or need of help. That's where I would on start any conversation that veers into this territory.

Don't impose your world view on my situation; it doesn't apply and is very rude.

shadow wrote: ↑Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:36 pm
Why is it so hard for mormons to figure out that making someone a project only pushes them away further? People want genuine connection, not condescending interest conditioned on a return to active participation in the church?

They'll figure it out once it stops being taught to them at an early age (most likely never). I agree, this is one thing I see more and more now that I'm "out." It kills me to see the looks of pity I get from members from our old ward I happen to see in the community. My SIL lives nearby and one of her friends is from our old ward. Every time I see her, she just makes the whole situation so much more awkward than it needs to be. She could just be pleasant and friendly, but she just can't help herself and does the sad pitying look usually combined with an invite to join her and a few other ladies for a "fun" RS event they have coming up. Then I awkwardly have to decline. I just can't with some people in the church. Not everyone, but a lot of people are just over the top phony and only seem friendly with the true intention of pushing their agenda. I hate that.

Sorry to hear about your bishop. That must've been a big let down. All the best to you.