NOM

Had an aha moment again. I am having those more and more often.

There is scripture that basically says forgive to be forgiven. Its used a lot in doctrines, and so forth. And this is how it plays out....

Q: Did Joseph Smith lie about his relationship with other women?

A: Why are you asking that question? Of COURSE he didn't lie about it!

Q: But it says here in church history that he gave a talk a few weeks before his death where he publically said he wasn't involved in polygamy.

A: You sure have a lot to talk about. Maybe he had no choice but to say that, and we are supposed to forgive him anyway. You certainly have things you need to be forgiven of, and you have no right to judge him. You need to repent of all of your mistakes and sins, and ONLY then would you even DARE to question the prophet!

And so it begins. The "ad hominem" is used, justified by the "forgive to be forgiven" argument, as a way to shield the wrongdoing of leadership.

GAWD THIS MAKES ME ANGRY!!!!!!

Rob, put down the Mormonism and take a step back dude! You're going to give away all the secrets.

You know....if there is a God, he has it figured out. The way to teach patience is by having a someone like me have a discussion with a TBM about whether Gordon Hinckley lied on national TV. We can't even establish whether the church teaches or has taught that God was a man.

I mean, forget about the first vision and God having a body of flesh and bone. Forget about God being resurrected, like Christ. Forget about the King Follet discourse. Forget about the teachings in the D&C.....ad nauseum.

GAWD, GIVE ME THE STRENGTH LORD TO CARRY ON!!!!......this TBM is as stupid as a rock and as slithery as a can of oil pored on warm jello!

She is driving me nucking futs!

OK..Ok...calm down...breath...breath. Sorry for freaking out a moment there....phew....breath, breath....

I have to remember this:

I'm gunna send this to her, tell her to read it, and then drop the conversation.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1982/02/i-ha ... e?lang=eng

Can't argue with her...its hopeless. I've read Lyndon Lamborn's book, and it makes total sense why she slithers: me asking questions and applying accountability to this is absolutely threatening to her.

My H#LL...I was once just like her and would have probably done the same thing! I remember that, and thank goodness I do--it allows me to step back and grant her some space, as well as myself. This mind-control stuff we were subjected to?....FRIGHTENING! It turns off your critical thinking brain in this area!

I feel your pain. Ad Hominem and circular reasoning are frustrating. But........it could be worse. What if you had lived during the Spanish Inquisition, or in modern Arabia.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:29 am I feel your pain. Ad Hominem and circular reasoning are frustrating. But........it could be worse. What if you had lived during the Spanish Inquisition, or in modern Arabia.

Or 19th century Utah...

Or 21st century FLDS Utah...

I am not so bothered by the original liar as much as those who insist on perpetuating it today. They can do better

1smartdodog wrote: ↑Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:33 pm I am not so bothered by the original liar as much as those who insist on perpetuating it today. They can do better

Amen!

One of the tenets of LDS theology is that God is not a respecter of persons. Oh really? That scripture alone, when applied to the preferential treatment, even to the extent of bald faced lies to preserve the reputation, of past LDS leadership is such a flagrant violation, I can't see any way to see God in the organization. And the #1 tool used, at least the one I see, is the ad hominem attack couched in the "forgive to be be forgiven" twist, or the "are you reading your scriptures? Are you paying your tithing? Are you masterbating or looking at pornography?" interview questions.

We all know, don't we, that the only reason a person would disagree or question the veracity of LDS leadership is because they themselves are sinning?

Ad hominem...all the way....

Yuk!!!

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:41 pm We all know, don't we, that the only reason a person would disagree or question the veracity of LDS leadership is because they themselves are sinning?

Ad hominem...all the way....

I started this conversation with a friend, its funny how quickly he went here. You can almost predict when these questions are going to hit. It seems to hit right after you lay out enough logic for their back to hit the corner...