NOM

LDS Living just came out with this article about what "prophets" have actually said regarding how many children LDS couples are to have. http://www.ldsliving.com/Birth-Control- ... id/s/87032

Of course it is exclusive of any statements before the 1990s I believe. Everything sounds quite liberal in allowing church members to make these "intimate decisions" for themselves.

I'd really like to know where I could get a copy of First Presidency letters from the 1970s when I was approaching marriage. As I recall, when I asked my bishop about the subject, he pulled out a 1st Pres. letter which in part read that "couples should not "postpone" or "curtail" the bearing of children and that only the health of the mother should be taken into account when considering ending child birth. I remember memorizing the terms postpone and curtail because they weren't part of my everyday vocabulary at the time although I understood and was familiar with them of course.

The LDS living article just seems like more "hiding" of what the church has said in the past. I wish I had time to go back and look for past statements that would demonstrate the incongruity but I think I'm getting a little tired of beating this horse.

Anyone know of a site where a record of 1st Pres. letters can be found?

Dialogue Journal has an archived article on this that is MIND BLOWING....

Here is a video reference to the former and partially current LDS policy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

From the musical, Come, Come Ye Saints!

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:51 pm Here is a video reference to the former and partially current LDS policy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

From the musical, Come, Come Ye Saints!

When I read the title of this thread just now, I thought, "There's a pill for men now? And the Q15 are on it? Why??"

Reuben wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:49 pm When I read the title of this thread just now, I thought, "There's a pill for men now? And the Q15 are on it? Why??"

My grammar is found wanting.

Yeeeah...I doubt much is happening for those guys these days...

But you never know. Some of the early church leaders of advanced years had children with younger polygamous wives. Too bad they weren't around long enough to be good fathers.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:47 pm Dialogue Journal has an archived article on this that is MIND BLOWING....

Do you remember which one? I'd like to read it!

EDIT- Maybe this one?
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... 03_171.pdf

Reuben wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:49 pm When I read the title of this thread just now, I thought, "There's a pill for men now? And the Q15 are on it? Why??"

I did the same thing!

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:23 pm Anyone know of a site where a record of 1st Pres. letters can be found?

Is it this one from April, 1969?
http://emp.byui.edu/SATTERFIELDB/Quotes ... 20Size.htm

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:06 pm

Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:23 pm Anyone know of a site where a record of 1st Pres. letters can be found?

Is it this one from April, 1969?
http://emp.byui.edu/SATTERFIELDB/Quotes ... 20Size.htm

Wow BTM! You're the bomb!

The 1969 quote from David O McKay is probaby as close as we'll get.

The policy and doctrine expressed in all of these statements are so utterly different in tone and direction than what was promoted in the LDS Living magazine.

These statements are a total shame fest. I can't believe the writers and editors of that magazine can look at themselves in the mirror every morning and not want to wretch.

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 4:45 pm

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 3:47 pm Dialogue Journal has an archived article on this that is MIND BLOWING....

Do you remember which one? I'd like to read it!

EDIT- Maybe this one?
https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... 03_171.pdf

I think its the one by Lester Bush. But, there are a few of them, and many are quite interesting.

PS. Try this: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N02_14.pdf

JFS was a hardliner:

The particular attention attracted to Joseph Fielding Smith's remarks were
probably due to two assertions. First,
. . . those who attempt to pervert the ways of the Lord, and to prevent their offspring from
coming into the world . . . are guilty of one of the most heinous crimes in the category. There
is no promise of eternal salvation and exaltation for such as they. . . ,72 (this is from that article)

So, all you people out there who have sex using birth-control?...YOU ARE GOING TO HELL! Good thing you have nothing to worry about in hell cuz you wont have no junk (you TK Smoothies you!)

Palerider wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:21 pm Wow BTM! You're the bomb!

Glad I could help!

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:23 pm I think its the one by Lester Bush. But, there are a few of them, and many are quite interesting.
PS. Try this: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N02_14.pdf

Oh, wow. I'm gonna need to read this one, too. The other dialogue article I posted is also pretty eye-opening, if you haven't read it. I tried to post it in a comment on LDS living in response to the OP's linked article, but it looks like they've changed their post policy to a "comment by email" method... Lame. I doubt my comment will see the light of day.

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:22 am

Palerider wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:21 pm Wow BTM! You're the bomb!

Glad I could help!

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:23 pm I think its the one by Lester Bush. But, there are a few of them, and many are quite interesting.
PS. Try this: https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-cont ... N02_14.pdf

Oh, wow. I'm gonna need to read this one, too. The other dialogue article I posted is also pretty eye-opening, if you haven't read it. I tried to post it in a comment on LDS living in response to the OP's linked article, but it looks like they've changed their post policy to a "comment by email" method... Lame. I doubt my comment will see the light of day.

The church's policy of RARELY correcting a prior leader, but generally just not communicating anything new about past things said, causes all kinds of damage, especially with sexual stuff. I live in an area where the leadership is older. They are steeped in the "old ways"...like Miracle of Forgiveness, etc. That was, after all, written by a "prophet"....right? (even with the disclaimer at the beginning it is considered like that). So, masturbation, homosexuality, and just about everything else is totally out of control condemned.

BriansThoughMirror,...check out the article by Romel Mackleprang in Dialogue as well. He gives some pretty good info about the "pleasure problem". Part of what these prophets were saying on birth control is that sex for fun (with your spouse), is WRONG. Their attitude is: "well,...sex if for connection...BUT YOU BETTER WATCH IT!. Liking it TOO MUCH IS WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!"

Sorry to be so explicit--this is how it was presented to me and MANY others in my generation and area in SLC, Davis and Utah County I've talked to. In this area, I feel like the 'sacrificed generation'. Read the Mackelprang article, and you will see sections about that problem, especially in MOF.

My parent's generation were told that using birth control was wrong. That is why I have 10 brothers and sisters.

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:32 pm In this area, I feel like the 'sacrificed generation'.

Oh, man, that's awful. I hope they stop this stuff. I already felt bad for my generation (born in early 80's), but at least I didn't get all that crap. I think they'll change a little bit at a time, but not without leaving a trail of damaged humans.

BriansThoughtMirror wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:48 pm

Rob4Hope wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:32 pm In this area, I feel like the 'sacrificed generation'.

Oh, man, that's awful. I hope they stop this stuff. I already felt bad for my generation (born in early 80's), but at least I didn't get all that crap. I think they'll change a little bit at a time, but not without leaving a trail of damaged humans.

Damage is done BTM. My generation is the currently entrenched group in leadership now, but it's my group and younger that are leaving in droves, and I think the church is in serious trouble.

The church lives in denial of its role about birth control and other things they don't want to be accountable for.

If you have any interest, D. Michael Quinn, in an interview with John Dehlin (i think, or was it Bill Reel?), told about the policies SWK had with gay men. SWK would counsel gay men to "force" themselves to get married (and Quinn was adamant that the word "FORCE" was in fact used). This resulted in disaster...utter heartache disaster. I remember hearing Dallin Oaks talk about this policy briefly. He called it an "irregularity". Can you believe that? The man relegated disasterous policy, causing heartache and tragedy that destroyed families and generations, as an "irregularity"?

I think DHO is heartless. His ONLY objective is adopting a position that he can legally defend, and to h3ll with people's lives and feelings.

Good thing DHO and the rest of them have their "Calling and Election Made Sure", because according to section 132, they have carte blanche to do whatever they want short of cold-blooded murder, and they will be forgiven. So, if they crack a few eggs (people) while making an omelet, who cares. People's lives don't matter...I mean really-- This is the Church of Jesus Christ after all! Come on folks...we are all supposed to sacrifice ourselves for the good of the church after all, right?

And the Q15 are the ones who apparently see themselves as being authorized by God to decide who gets sacrificed.

TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....

On yeh...sing sing,...la la la la la...sing sing....dance dance......

The ultimate condom....oh yeh....no viagra needed,...EVER AGAIN....oh yeh....sing sing...

TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....TkSmoothie....

Oh WAIT? WHERE AM I?....YIKES. FELL ASLEEP in PH Meeting AGAIN!

PS. Was getting snarky. Sorry bout that.

Reuben wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:49 pm When I read the title of this thread just now, I thought, "There's a pill for men now? And the Q15 are on it? Why??"

Clearly Joseph Smith was on this pill for men. It's how he only had children with Emma.

Corsair wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:04 am

Reuben wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:49 pm When I read the title of this thread just now, I thought, "There's a pill for men now? And the Q15 are on it? Why??"

Clearly Joseph Smith was on this pill for men. It's how he only had children with Emma.

I saw this title and thought "oh no, good Lord they found my secret sauce!"