NOM

3 Nephi 21:
12 And my people who are a remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles, yea, in the midst of them as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep, who, if he go through both treadeth down and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

13 Their hand shall be lifted up upon their adversaries, and all their enemies shall be cut off.

When I was TBM, I once went on a study crusade to try and find the meaning of these verses about the lamanites treading down the gentiles.

It wasn't until I went through the faith transition and got to view the youtube video presentation "truth about trek" with Will Bagley that all the millenialist lamanite militarism came to have meaning.

https://youtu.be/Ou47dupzoys

The young leaders of the church took these prophecies so seriously they were literally building an Army of Zion together with the lamanites to fulfill it by going to war with the United States. So much of history in the early Utah Territiory now makes sense. Iron County was meant to refine ore to build cannons for the last great apocolyptic war, missionary efforts in Europe were to find good soldiers for the legion (along with more wives for leaders as a side benefit) and the lamanites would be the "shock troops".

No wonder the stuff I found in seminary manuals and other faithful commentary never answered the question!

I have wondered if this is one reason the Mountain Meadows killers disguised themselves as Indians. It reminds me of Charles Manson's motivations for his killings. He believed the Bible prophesied a race war in the US and he thought "blackie" needed someone to show them how to deal with "whitey."

Also, the not-so-accurate Civil War prophecy in D&C prophesies that the Lamanites will rise up and join the rebelling slaves in the destruction of the "gentiles:"

D&C 87:5 And it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm I have wondered if this is one reason the Mountain Meadows killers disguised themselves as Indians.

This is a possibility. But going incognito seems more in line with the leadership's desire to do something ugly or unseemly and not have to take responsibility for it.

"I only have one wife." Joseph Smith

"Leadership has never hidden anything from the members." Mr. Ballard

"Don't record our talks." Mr. Oaks

"The Indians did it!" Brigham Young

There's a consistent pattern here.......

It's unsettling how similar this is to the Biblical scripture regarding the corrupt woman who after consuming sin, wipes her mouth and says, " I have not eaten, I am clean..." (paraphrasing Proverbs 30:20)

That scripture from 3rd Nephi was so important to the early church. It tied in with the Civil War prophecy, and the Church move to Missouri, "on the borders of the Lamanites." It's one of those "still in the future" prophecies, so it gets passed over a lot in Sunday School lessons.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:41 amIt's one of those "still in the future" prophecies, so it gets passed over a lot in Sunday School lessons.

Then they need to get their act together about whether the rise of the Indian already happened in the Civil War (it didn't) or it is still to come. If it's in the future that doubly-invalidates D&C 87 as a Civil War prophesy.

Note of topic derailment: for anyone who isn't aware of it, Joseph dictated the "Civil War" prophesy just a couple of days the Painsville Telegraph, his local newspaper, reprinted an article that discussed the coalition of southern states, headed by South Carolina, that was threatening secession. So the parts he got right were common knowledge at the time. Everything else was wrong.

The prophecy in question is a “conditional prophecy” meaning if the gentles repent, then they won’t get trodden down by the Lamanites/remnant. Ever since Joseph Smith was murdered it’s been understood that the gentiles didn’t repent. So one would expect to see the gentiles get trodden down soon after the martyrdom . The Civil War got Church leaders hopes up, but, alas, the North won, the Indians/remnant were the ones that got trodden down instead of the gentiles, and so it is rarely discussed any more, except on line.; in forums such as this, because it's not "useful."

Hagoth wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:17 pm I have wondered if this is one reason the Mountain Meadows killers disguised themselves as Indians.

The Mormon's would not have felt a need to dress as Indians if the Paiutes had agreed to participate in the massacre as requested. But would the Paiutes do it? Ohh Noooo, the Paiutes felt a need to respect the sanctity of life - listed as numero uno in the Ten Commandments!!! Too hoity-toity for the ferocity of Mormon sensibilities, eh? Well fine, if they would not honor the wishes of the prophet then they can go straight to heck.