NOM

I was talking to a close friend about why we don't pray to Heavenly Mother. She suggested that it is because Heavenly Father is the priesthood holder. I pondered this for a while. Has anybody ever heard a similar explanation, or know of a the source for such an idea?

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:06 am I was talking to a close friend about why we don't pray to Heavenly Mother. She suggested that it is because Heavenly Father is the priesthood holder. I pondered this for a while. Has anybody ever heard a similar explanation, or know of a the source for such an idea?

The more common excuse is that she is too sacred to mention or pray to.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:27 am

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:06 am I was talking to a close friend about why we don't pray to Heavenly Mother. She suggested that it is because Heavenly Father is the priesthood holder. I pondered this for a while. Has anybody ever heard a similar explanation, or know of a the source for such an idea?

The more common excuse is that she is too sacred to mention or pray to.

The less common but more doctrinally realistic excuse would be to ask "which Heavenly Mother"?

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:06 am I was talking to a close friend about why we don't pray to Heavenly Mother. She suggested that it is because Heavenly Father is the priesthood holder. I pondered this for a while. Has anybody ever heard a similar explanation, or know of a the source for such an idea?

I think this is a case of confirmation bias. They make up stuff in their own mind to make it all work. Like the good old "matter used to create the earth already had dinosaur bones in it"

Joseph Smith clearly never talked about Heavenly Mother at all. I wonder why?

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:38 am

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:06 am I was talking to a close friend about why we don't pray to Heavenly Mother. She suggested that it is because Heavenly Father is the priesthood holder. I pondered this for a while. Has anybody ever heard a similar explanation, or know of a the source for such an idea?

I think this is a case of confirmation bias. They make up stuff in their own mind to make it all work. Like the good old "matter used to create the earth already had dinosaur bones in it"

Joseph Smith clearly never talked about Heavenly Mother at all. I wonder why?

I think Joseph did talk about Heavenly Mother, but to specific women he wanted to seduce. There is a story somewhere about a woman whose mother had just died, and he assured her she also had a mother in Heaven. Possibly Elisa R Snow. Maybe someone who keeps track of such stories and their references can tell you more. But just like he first gave the priesthood, then the higher priesthood, then promised blessings when the temple was built, Joseph had a pattern of telling people things that made them "sure" he was a prophet if they ever had questions. You see this pattern with the men of the church. But since women didn't feel flattered by higher priesthood the same way men did, he had to find an idea that the women were longing for. Having female deity was the trick. So, he used this idea to manipulate women. Is it any surprise that Elisa R Snow wrote the only song or real mention of Heavenly Mother and that she was married to Joseph.

As to the idea that we pray to the male God because he has priesthood, within a Mormon context, it makes more sense than any other invented reason.

alas wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:08 am I think Joseph did talk about Heavenly Mother, but to specific women he wanted to seduce. There is a story somewhere about a woman whose mother had just died, and he assured her she also had a mother in Heaven. Possibly Elisa R Snow. Maybe someone who keeps track of such stories and their references can tell you more. But just like he first gave the priesthood, then the higher priesthood, then promised blessings when the temple was built, Joseph had a pattern of telling people things that made them "sure" he was a prophet if they ever had questions. You see this pattern with the men of the church. But since women didn't feel flattered by higher priesthood the same way men did, he had to find an idea that the women were longing for. Having female deity was the trick. So, he used this idea to manipulate women. Is it any surprise that Elisa R Snow wrote the only song or real mention of Heavenly Mother and that she was married to Joseph.

Are you suggesting Heavenly Mother was just pillow talk?

Joseph: Elisa my dear, you too can become a Heavenly Mother of Celestial Glory with double D bosom's in the afterlife but only if you enter into a polygamous marriage in this life with a true Prophet of God!

Elisa: double D bosom's?

Joseph: uh, did I say double D? I er, uh, uh, uh meant to say live with God through out all eternity....

Elisa: ...and all I have to do is marry you in a secret ceremony?

Joseph: ... yes, as well as visit my bed on Tuesday's while Emma is at the a Grocery store. You must never tell anyone any of this sacred celestial marriage arrangement. Got it? I could get tarred and feathered, castrated, or even killed! You must not tell a single soul.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:35 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:27 am

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:06 am I was talking to a close friend about why we don't pray to Heavenly Mother. She suggested that it is because Heavenly Father is the priesthood holder. I pondered this for a while. Has anybody ever heard a similar explanation, or know of a the source for such an idea?

The more common excuse is that she is too sacred to mention or pray to.

The less common but more doctrinally realistic excuse would be to ask "which Heavenly Mother"?

A much less common and thoroughly undoctrinal excuse is that we actually have two heavenly daddies.

Joseph:.... I shall talk to your father and promise eternal salvation for you and your family if you submit to be my concubine. If you betray me i shall reuin your reputation.

Elisa:...ummm sure, i guess i will, if you put it that way. Can i go to the dance with you next Friday?

Joseph: NO! But i can meet you afterwards and show you my amazing technicolor dream coat.. it was buried with the plates, and nephi...i mean moroni forgot it when he took the plates back to kinderhook Missouri.

I went to the Church essay and about 'Mother in Heaven', and it didn't say anything about praying to Heavenly Father because he held the priesthood. However, the friend who expressed this view to me, is a very intelligent person, and even if she came up with the answer on her own, it does make more sense, from the current LDS view, than the old answer I used to hear, about Heavenly Mother being too sacred to mention. I hope to explore this thought further with my friend, and see where it comes from.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2017 7:53 am I went to the Church essay and about 'Mother in Heaven', and it didn't say anything about praying to Heavenly Father because he held the priesthood. However, the friend who expressed this view to me, is a very intelligent person, and even if she came up with the answer on her own, it does make more sense, from the current LDS view, than the old answer I used to hear, about Heavenly Mother being too sacred to mention. I hope to explore this thought further with my friend, and see where it comes from.

I would go along with this view because it fits well into the narrative of absolute loyalty to priesthood leadership, apostle/prophet worship and the overall misogynistic structure of the church.