NOM

I really hate the holidays this time of year.

Too much to do. Too much to eat. Too much money spent. I think I've realized two things that trigger my bad mood this time of year. Tithing settlement and family temple trips.

Long ago I decided I would not abandon my family and hold my head high out of principle and show a united front even if I didn't pay. We went in as a family and we walked out as a family. I left the scheduling of this completely unnecessary meeting up to the full tithe payer in the family. This year we skipped it due to what I thought was a busy schedule and an overlooked scheduling conflict. I was wrong. It turns out the wife didn't want to go and have to declare herself as the only full tithe payer in the household. The kids have been giving her grief about tithing being a waste so she left it up to them. The coin jars are still full. While this should feel like a win, it really sucks as she is distraught over it.

The second trigger of my holiday foul mood was the impromptu temple session where 7 of 8 adults went for a morning session. Yup, I was the odd man out and it crushed Sister Ryder's soul. This isnt the first time and probably won't be the last time she's had to go at it alone like a single diseased temple leper. It hurts. I know it hurts her but there's nothing I can do to make it better. I can't blame the church. I can't blame the family. I can't blame her for wanting me there sitting across the aisle from her with all the dudes in funny hats. I can only blame myself for having the curiosity to ask if Mormonism is true and step off the correlated narrative to follow the real un-whitewashed history. It sucks letting go of your beliefs and watching your eternal spouse suffer the consequences and become collateral damage to the mormon machine. I've become a broken cog in the production wheel. She's become the backup cog now forced to take on a role in the mormon machine designed for man by men. Raise the kids in righteousness. Make sure they get married in the temple. Make sure they don't fall to the wayside while I wonder lost in my way. She suffers the social misfortune of being married to an unworthy temple recommendless monster who hates baby Jesus. Or at least hates dressing up in temple clothes to worship in his house!

I really hate what this has done to my mormon marriage. We can't question. We can't win. We can't even compete. The mormon machine is too strong. So you win again mormon machine! You win!

Sorry RR. All I can say is that I can empathize.

The holidays haven't gotten to me yet this year, but there usually does come a time when I do want to scream: **** it all!!!

And as you say: The mormon machine exacerbates the issues...

RR, boy do I ever feel your pain. I can certainly relate to everything you've laid out. I'm so sorry.

Preach!

It sucks letting go of your beliefs and watching your eternal spouse suffer the consequences and become collateral damage to the mormon machine. I've become a broken cog in the production wheel. She's become the backup cog now forced to take on a role in the mormon machine designed for man by men. Raise the kids in righteousness. Make sure they get married in the temple. Make sure they don't fall to the wayside while I wonder lost in my way. She suffers the social misfortune of being married to an unworthy temple recommendless monster who hates baby Jesus. Or at least hates dressing up in temple clothes to worship in his house!

I really hate what this has done to my mormon marriage. We can't question. We can't win. We can't even compete. The mormon machine is too strong. So you win again mormon machine! You win!

Completely agree. Well-written. And then, they piously proclaim that they are "all about the family." Also, I think the holidays are difficult due to the propensity of increasing the divide between TBM's and NOM's. - Wndr.

Red Ryder— I hear you, and I’m sorry that I cannot offer more than a whole lot of understanding and empathy. Going through faith crisis/disaffection/whatever the H*#@ you want to call it (but it feels like H*#@ to me)— it is Rough. But, I can handle all of the difficult, maddening, heartbreaking, confusing, surprising, disillusioning....stuff. None of the historical, doctrinal, or cultural CRAP out there can even begin to touch the pain, disconnection, sorrow, and separation that has the power to infiltrate a “mixed-faith” Mormon marriage. I just got done with my 4th straight year of declaring myself a “partial” tithing payor. At least this year my Bishop didn’t shame me with Tithing Lesson 101 in front of the rest of my family. I think my youngest was scared for quite a while after that year’s visit— thinking his Mom was going to burn to a crisp. I’ve also experienced the Family Temple Trips, where I sit out that day. Luckily, I do have brothers to sit out with me.

It’s terrible to be put in a position where you are seen as the “troubled”, “apostate”, or “faithless one”.... the Weak Link —-threatening to break the chain between your ancestors and your children... (Thanks Stake Conference Speaker for that lovely and edifying Talk). I’m sure that being the PH of the couple adds another thick layer of “falling short”, as our theology heavily relies on the man to get his whole family to heaven. It isn’t often that I see Mormon women having an advantage, but this is probably one. Ugh. It’s hard. And yeah, it hurts.

I'm sorry for what you are going through, I am there with you in the same boat. It's getting harder and harder to do this. This is an example of why the Church is not a benign, harmless religion - it is toxic and harmful to families starting the second any member of it begins to diverge from the Mormon way of doing things. I wish it were completely out of my life.

Hello RR

This sucks, it's not the Mormon machine. It's the nexus of culture, nurture, and religion which causes this.
You can't blame yourself, please don't.
Who is the lying party here? The Church is.
Lies are only seen when you want to open your eyes to them, and that's what hurts.

I feel your pain, Red. I hope its not adding to the pain to remind you it could be worse. If your family still speaks to each other your are doing better than some. I feel blessed by a spouse who lets me attend another church with out much fuss. All our kids were out of the house when my shelf broke, so I didn't have to dwell with that. Hang in there Red. Sharing your story is helping others to bear the same burdens.

Stig wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:12 pm RR, boy do I ever feel your pain. I can certainly relate to everything you've laid out.

Thanks for the empathy. The frustrating part has been to see how quickly these two events have unwound 9 months of marriage counseling. So frustrating.

Wonderment wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:57 pm Also, I think the holidays are difficult due to the propensity of increasing the divide between TBM's and NOM's. - Wndr.

Thanks Wndr! The divide never heals and always festers regardless of how many times you change the band-aid.

Enough wrote: ↑Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:15 pm At least this year my Bishop didn’t shame me with Tithing Lesson 101 in front of the rest of my family. I think my youngest was scared for quite a while after that year’s visit— thinking his Mom was going to burn to a crisp.

Thanks for your thoughts. I've had those talks too! I swear, who makes this stuff up? My current Bishop now just ignores me. He literally passes around a basket of those cheap mini Hershey chocolate bars while he tells the kids they can have 10 as long as they give one back. He skips right past me as if I'm not there. No chocolate for you!

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:44 am I wish it were completely out of my life.

Me too but I can't see how this will ever happen unless we can enter some sort of witness protection program and start a new life with a new name, mustache, and colored underwear.

Meilingkie wrote:Lies are only seen when you want to open your eyes to them, and that's what hurts.

True. True. I think I've been lying to myself that somehow a mixed faith marriage will all work out. Resentment is extremely difficult to eradicate. Glad to see your still here every now and again.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:02 am I feel your pain, Red. I hope its not adding to the pain to remind you it could be worse.

Thanks for the reminder Deacon. You're absolutely right that it could always be worse. We've somehow made it work for over 10 years now and that should indicate something.

Thanks everyone for listening. The empathy and understanding of a nuanced mormon marriage goes a long way. Now if only someone could infiltrate the correlation department and pencil in some counter intelligence lessons to detoxify the chapel.

Dude, this sucks. I feel for you. Your positive and light-hearted attitude in the face of adversity is always inspiring to me, so to read the frustration in your post really stings. I wish you the best friend. PM if you ever want to connect via phone/text/social media.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:08 am Me too but I can't see how this will ever happen unless we can enter some sort of witness protection program and start a new life with a new name, mustache, and colored underwear.

Oh man! Who among us can start the NoM-ness protection program?

(I don't know if I can do just the moose-tache though... Well, maybe I could make the sacrifice for freedom!)

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:08 am
Me too but I can't see how this will ever happen unless we can enter some sort of witness protection program and start a new life with a new name, mustache, and colored underwear.

Count me in for the Pilot Witness Protection Program. I will volunteer for starting a new life, getting a new name (... can we call it something else, though???), and wearing colored underwear (sign me up for anything that doesn’t cause G- like yeast infections or include a near-bust, elastic waistband). But, under the circumstances, I would prefer to remain mustache-free.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:08 amThanks for the empathy. The frustrating part has been to see how quickly these two events have unwound 9 months of marriage counseling. So frustrating.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is the future I decided I couldn't endure; always looking over my shoulder for the next time Church drove a wedge between me and my spouse. For me, divorce was the only option.

Stig wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:35 am

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:08 amThanks for the empathy. The frustrating part has been to see how quickly these two events have unwound 9 months of marriage counseling. So frustrating.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is the future I decided I couldn't endure; always looking over my shoulder for the next time Church drove a wedge between me and my spouse. For me, divorce was the only option.

I appreciate your honesty here. This is the pivotal issue we have to overcome. It's quickly becoming clear that going along to get along doesn't work anymore. It leaves us both tired and frustrated.

The other oddity here is a desire to keep God in the marriage. What do you do when it's a necessity for one person and the other looks up at the sky with an extended middle finger? We both agree God does not equal Mormonism, but I don't have the energy to constantly redefine this in a nuanced way when God has been so narrowly defined within the soggy cardboard box of Mormonism. Don't even get me started on GOMI. I'll pull out the middle finger thing again.

Sigh...

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:35 pm

Stig wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:35 am

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:08 amThanks for the empathy. The frustrating part has been to see how quickly these two events have unwound 9 months of marriage counseling. So frustrating.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this is the future I decided I couldn't endure; always looking over my shoulder for the next time Church drove a wedge between me and my spouse. For me, divorce was the only option.

I appreciate your honesty here. This is the pivotal issue we have to overcome. It's quickly becoming clear that going along to get along doesn't work anymore. It leaves us both tired and frustrated.

The other oddity here is a desire to keep God in the marriage. What do you do when it's a necessity for one person and the other looks up at the sky with an extended middle finger? We both agree God does not equal Mormonism, but I don't have the energy to constantly redefine this in a nuanced way when God has been so narrowly defined within the soggy cardboard box of Mormonism. Don't even get me started on GOMI. I'll pull out the middle finger thing again.

Sigh...

Yes, hearing how something finally happening in our lives that was good was really a "blessing" instead a product of me working my ass off was also a source of contention.

ETA: GOMI?

GOMI = God Ordained Marital Intimacy.

Aka Wendy Watson Nelson

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... e?lang=eng

I have no wisdom or good counsel to offer, R.R, but you've been on my mind all day. I'm so sorry for the hurt, heart- and headache you're experiencing. Hugs.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:00 pm GOMI = God Ordained Marital Intimacy.

Aka Wendy Watson Nelson

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... e?lang=eng

GOMI: Yet another aspect of human joy that the institutional church lays claim upon then sells back to you at a high price with key features missing. I am a little skeptical of intimacy advice coming from a woman who got married at age 50 to a man who has children older than her. I recognize her educational background, but I have trouble looking on it with respect when she produces problematic books like "The Not Even Once Club."

This is a difficult situation for the Ryder family.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:00 pm GOMI = God Ordained Marital Intimacy.

Aka Wendy Watson Nelson

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... e?lang=eng

Corsair wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:17 pm

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:00 pm GOMI = God Ordained Marital Intimacy.

Aka Wendy Watson Nelson

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/article/ ... e?lang=eng

GOMI: Yet another aspect of human joy that the institutional church lays claim upon then sells back to you at a high price with key features missing. I am a little skeptical of intimacy advice coming from a woman who got married at age 50 to a man who has children older than her. I recognize her educational background, but I have trouble looking on it with respect when she produces problematic books like "The Not Even Once Club."

This is a difficult situation for the Ryder family.

Ahhh, got it.