NOM

Our bishop declared from the pulpit today that there is no place in the church for fence sitters.

I had been really enjoying the feels at church today until that moment.

I tell myself that there is value for me and for those I serve by attending/holding callings. After today I felt like I might be the only one that feels that way. And it pushed me further underground-I'd been toying with being more honest about my lack of belief but now I won't.

Not sure what I'm doing with this post other than sharing my disappointment. I posted last week about the surprising number of "everything is true" testimonies. Doubling down/being more orthodox rather than nuanced/progressive is the way it appears to be going here.

If there were no place in the church for people with doubts or people on the fence, then the church would be mostly empty. This sounds more like a bishop's "fire 'em up" talk that backfired. I would imagine that other members had the same reaction as you did.
The bishop doesn't get to decide who is welcome in church or for whom the church has room. Ideally, the church should welcome doubters and fence sitters with open arms, which is what Christ would do. I think the bishop really missed the mark here. JMO -- Wndr.

That really sucks, Anon.

Your bishop is flat-out wrong, and Elder Holland agrees with me:

Don’t demean your worth or denigrate your contribution. Above all, don’t abandon your role in the chorus. Why? Because you are unique; you are irreplaceable. The loss of even one voice diminishes every other singer in this great mortal choir of ours, including the loss of those who feel they are on the margins of society or the margins of the Church.

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... and-unsung

Personally, I'd be torn between 1) trying to fix the bishop and stopping his demolition wrecking ball, and 2) just grabbing the popcorn. I'd probably cave and go with #1 by sending a heartfelt email with a link to Elder Holland's talk using an anonymous email service or throwaway email account. (Actually, I could just talk to my own bishop, but he would never say anything so divisive and so... last century Mormonism, I guess.)

The LDS church won't survive without the lukewarm. I think many of the Q15 have figured this out but still don't know how to make it work in a church that lives on testimonies, tithing and volunteer labor.

Oh, and President Uchtdorf also says your bishop is wrong:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a place for people with all kinds of testimonies. There are some members of the Church whose testimony is sure and burns brightly within them. Others are still striving to know for themselves. The Church is a home for all to come together, regardless of the depth or the height of our testimony. I know of no sign on the doors of our meetinghouses that says, “Your testimony must be this tall to enter.”

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/ ... -and-truth

Your bishop needs to repent and follow the prophets and apostles.

I am sorry Anon. What a load of BS. Sounds like your bishop is scared. My strong recommendation is to send him the quotes from GAs that Reuben posted. I am sure there are probably more. You can send them from you-- you're quoting God's chosen prophets/seers/revelators--which totally trump your bishop's crap. Or use an anonymous email.

Tell him it's going to take more than someone throwing a few rocks to knock you off your fence.

I hadn't thought about emailing him (great quotes!) nor about telling him how it felt or even just how it came across. He's a good man and a good bishop.

I am a faker. No one but my family knows I'm mentally out. But I'm probably definitely considered non orthodox and some people kind of....eye me. I got "accused" of wanting the priesthood recently which surprised me because I don't and because I realized that anyone that doesn't follow the norm gets labeled and not always in ways we expect.

I live in a very LDS place so I'm not sure what I'll do yet but good feedback, thanks!

Anon70 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:08 pm Not sure what I'm doing with this post other than sharing my disappointment. I posted last week about the surprising number of "everything is true" testimonies. Doubling down/being more orthodox rather than nuanced/progressive is the way it appears to be going here.

Yep. I don't see a lot of progressive anything from where I stand. Sorry to hear about the bishop and the testimonies. My F&T was lousy too.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:59 am I am a faker. No one but my family knows I'm mentally out. But I'm probably definitely considered non orthodox and some people kind of....eye me. I got "accused" of wanting the priesthood recently which surprised me because I don't and because I realized that anyone that doesn't follow the norm gets labeled and not always in ways we expect.

I"m a faker too, and although my parents know how I feel, my husband only has an inkling. I've long been considered non-orthodox. Someone once told me they loved the fact that I played "devil's advocate" when I talked and taught in church. It wasn't a game, my friend, it is truly what I think and how I feel. It's funny that the box they're stuck in is so narrow, that even when you speak your mind, you can be entirely misunderstood.

Pssst...

The fence is only about three inches high.

Shhh.... Don't tell anyone, it's a secret.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:22 am Tell him it's going to take more than someone throwing a few rocks to knock you off your fence.

Haha nice reference to Samuel the Lamanite up on the wall. I guess we could call him a fence sitter.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:07 am Pssst...

The fence is only about three inches high.

Shhh.... Don't tell anyone, it's a secret.

And balancing on it... Well, it gives you better balance. Better balance is a good thing, especially as we age.

Anon70 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:59 am I live in a very LDS place so I'm not sure what I'll do yet but good feedback, thanks!

People come up with extreme statements all the time. Unless these people are some knuckleheads with nuclear launch codes at their disposal, don't worry and be happy. There is no need to touch this or even laugh at it (well, maybe just a little). Be true to yourself and that is sufficient.



BTW, You did know that this is all part of a longitudinal genetics experiment started by Professor Mat Crowley of Harvard University in 1823. Professor Crowley conjectured that by the year 2133, the end result of this experiment would be the creation of a whole new species called Homo Know-fer-sures. The professor counted on there being dropouts along the way in order to concentrate the gene pool of true knowers.

Lukewarm fence sitter, that's me. Damn proud of it, too.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:55 pm Lukewarm fence sitter, that's me. Damn proud of it, too.

Me too! *High five*

Oh and also, I'm going to sit wherever the hell I want.

Sitting on the fence of Mormonism is kind of like sitting on a barbed wire fence naked. Uncomfortable, you cant move much, it looks silly, and if someone/something pushes you sensitive things are going to get hurt.