NOM

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:25 pm**

I was reading through the mega letters thread the way back machine captured from old NOM and came across this letter from your mom that was touching. What was the reaction from your mom with your recent resignation?

https://web.archive.org/web/20140715201 ... &start=100

Goodboy wrote:My parents are separated. My Dad is uber TBM and in poor physical and mental health and needs his faith right now so I wouldn't bother him. My Mom is active, has a PhD in psychology, and has a exmo boyfriend that stays over at her house regularly and who goes on multi-day trips with her, so I thought she would be more receptive... anyway this is the email I sent her:
*******************
Hi Mom,

I hope you have been enjoying your retirement!

Regarding our conversation that we had last year after I interviewed for the job in Logan... I have read some things recently that have really made me wonder more about the church...
http://www.mormonthink.com/book-of-abraham-issues.htm
http://www.mormonthink.com/joseph-smith-polygamy.htm and
http://www.mormonthink.com/book-of-mormon-problems.htm

I wondered if you knew about these things, and if so how you have dealt with them.

Love you!
*********************
Her response:
Hey my favorite son, I sure love you. I am enjoying retirement. I have really been mostly lazy lately but keep thinking of things to do. I am sure I am not going to be idle long.

I am sad that you still seem to be struggling with the church thing. I read some of the links you sent-not all and agree that a lot of things about the church are pretty far-fetched and irrational. [Boyfriend] has also brought attention to some of the problems, too. And you know I have to concede that it's very possible that what I have grown up believing may be some sort of myth-unprovable at the least.

But then I go back to some of the basic things that have been such a positive influence to me. Believing in a loving Father in Heaven-invaluable.

I like believing that we can get answers to prayers, that God is a man, that revelation is possible. I like believing that someone can be persecuted and sacrifice for their beliefs and still believe.

I like the organization of the church, for children, young people, families taking care of each other.

Sometimes I have noticed my feelings when I read things like what you sent. My scientific mind kicks in and sort of weighs the evidence, but I don't really ever feel good. That is in contrast to other things I read that I do feel good, that I do feel the Spirit.

[Boyfriend put me onto a book] about how mormon people influence films, books, life in wholesome ways. Reading that made me feel good. I like being part of that.

When your dad and I married, I wanted you guys to be raised with God in your lives. I told him I would be okay if we did Presbyterian, as long as we did together. He made the decision for you to be raised LDS. I am glad. I actually like to go to church, to sing the songs, to hear the prayers, sometimes to listen to the talks or lessons. It feels comfortable to me, safe, loved by God.

I guess I feel like I am finished with the struggle of wanting to KNOW whether what I practice is true. If I decided the proof was against the church was such that I could no longer go along with it, what would the consequences be? My family would suffer. I like taking advantage of the good things it does to support me and my family. I am really okay with not knowing what to really believe. I know there is a God. I have had prayers answered. I am grateful for a strong family, and the church has had a positive influence in our lives. I love you, [GoodBoy], I am so glad you are my son. Mom
************************

What do I think? I think she has some very good points. Maybe in religious matters truth is less important than what seems to work for the emotional people that we all are.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:01 pm**

She sounds very stage 5/6ish on the Fowler chart.

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:47 pm**

Wow, she is very thoughtful and self aware. I think that mom sounds like a good person. I have nothing against that position at all.

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:46 pm**

Goodboy, your mom sounds kind of awesome. I guess the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree!

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:22 pm**

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:01 pmShe sounds very stage 5/6ish on the Fowler chart.

Indeed!

This was a good read. Why can't I get to where you mom is? Goodboy, why did you eventually decide to resign and not just Stage-5 it? I am feeling very much in the burn-the-bridges mode right now. It not fair for me to ask DW to do that, she is not ready. What sacrifices am I not seeing now that I would be making if I left? Would I want to come back?

Posted: **Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:30 pm**

I've left instead of trying to stage-5 it in the LDS church because attending was still making me irritable. This was making my lesbian/bi daughter, who is clinging onto the certainty the church encourages for dear life, and who struggles with anxiety and always assumes the worst, afraid to talk to me about religion. Basically, my staying was making her dig in, in a curious case of the backfire effect due to imagined arguments. My wife is at peace with my leaving.

Everybody who experiences a faith transition has to choose for themselves how active they want to be, on a scale of Jeremy Runnells to Richard Bushman. The decision is as individual as the person making it. Usually, all of the options suck, and the objective is to choose the option that sucks the least.

FWIW, slavereeno, I think that all of the sacrifices you might not see have to do with relationships. If you need spirituality, you can always find it, inside or outside the LDS church.

Posted: **Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:11 pm**

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:01 pm I was reading through the mega letters thread the way back machine captured from old NOM and came across this letter from your mom that was touching. What was the reaction from your mom with your recent resignation?

Wow! What a gem! Thanks for finding this. I wish I could go back and find all of the posts from the old NOM site. It is the story of myself in turmoil and learning many new ways of viewing the world.

My Mom has not always wanted to go into the temple, and has her own rebellious streak and is on her 3rd marriage with a full-on atheist man, who is a pretty decent guy. So, she is much more open minded than many. I wanted to keep my resignation under wraps. However, my daughter told her that I resigned and when I was in Utah last week and she told me that made her sad because it was "who we were". I kind of agree to some extent.

She's not really in stage 5, but is mostly a believer that just doubts things a lot, mainly because it would not work out well for her I think if the church was true. She's still sealed to my Dad, who is also sealed to his new wife. So, she is a polygamous wife to someone she doesn't respect.

slavereeno wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:22 pm This was a good read. Why can't I get to where you mom is? Goodboy, why did you eventually decide to resign and not just Stage-5 it? I am feeling very much in the burn-the-bridges mode right now. It not fair for me to ask DW to do that, she is not ready. What sacrifices am I not seeing now that I would be making if I left? Would I want to come back?

My resignation has been pretty painless to be honest and it has given me a lot of freedom. My bishop, who is one of my closest friends, has decided not to tell anyone in the ward, so most people think I'm still in. In fact today I went to see my daughter get her Young Women's medallion, and I went to the Primary program a couple weeks before to see my other daughter sing. If they all knew it might be harder for me than it has been. I had planned on it pruning quite a few friends, but that hasn't happened.

I was not able to do Stage 5. I'm not sure Stage 5 is really a thing to be honest. Maybe it's just another name for people with an incredible tolerance to listening patiently to others spout nonsense while smiling and nodding and otherwise keeping their mouths shut. I do that a lot (smile and nod with my mouth shut) already and did it for almost 6 years. I still do it quite a bit with my many TBM friends. I do it with my Muslim students and Hindu colleagues as well.

I resigned for myself. To try to close that chapter on my life and open a new one. It was like a wedding, or funeral. I did it as a ceremony to move on, and as a way to communicate to my bishop and my wife, and to the world at large that I was not a believing Mormon; to not expect me to behave like a Mormon any more. I did it as a way to communicate that I was not uniformed, lazy, ignorant, or wanting to sin; that I did this because the church just isn't true.

Am I better off for resigning? Probably, but only slightly. I appreciate not being expected to hold a calling. But it makes me sad that people don't see me as a full-fledged member of their community any more. That they wouldn't let me help pass the sacrament, or go into the temple to see my kids get married. That I am officially an outsider. I don't recommend resigning to those who don't have a replacement community. I have a group of NOMs & ex-Mos, and students and colleagues at work that I find a measure of community with. I'm also to a point in my life where I am financially secure, and have a good and secure job, and I don't feel the need for community as strongly as I used to. I don't need them like I did when I was younger (I'm 45 yrs old). I can stand on my own and would frankly prefer more time to do things that make me happy other than do pointless things to "build faith".

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:36 am**

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:11 pm I don't recommend resigning to those who don't have a replacement community

This is what troubles DW the most right now. I have to agree to some extent, but everything in the church is designed to suck you back in and run you through the re-neducation process.

Posted: **Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:00 pm**

slavereeno wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:36 am
GoodBoy wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:11 pm I don't recommend resigning to those who don't have a replacement community
This is what troubles DW the most right now. I have to agree to some extent, but everything in the church is designed to suck you back in and run you through the re-neducation process.

Yep, and to keep you so busy that you don't have time to do anything else or make any other friends, and make you just weird enough that you don't fit in well in the rest of the world. You are taught to be afraid of those other guys.

NOM

Goodboy, I dug out this letter from your mom on wayback

Goodboy, I dug out this letter from your mom on wayback

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