An interesting discussion with JWs
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:36 pm
I've long taken issue with some JW practices, especially shunning and the vilification of apostates. I decided a while back to give them a chance to explain some of these practices from their perspective. I've had a few really interesting online discussions. Here's my last discussion about whether JWs can remain faithful but disagree with their religious leadership on certain topics. I think there are people on this board who will find their answers relevant to the Mormon experience. I was trying to not be a troll, by the way, and only ask real questions.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JWs/comments/7 ... t/dpjn74t/
Highlights
From user JW_DOT_ORG:
The organization's leadership is not perfect, and makes mistakes, but still has the truth. You are NOT allowed to openly disagree with leadership, or you'll be disfellowshipped (and shunned). If there are mistakes, Jehovah will get them all straitened out in time.
From user Moremoreor:
The organization may make mistakes from time to time, but they will not usually make big or significant mistakes. Even if they do, it's the job of believers to just wait for Jehovah to fix it. We are unqualified to question the anointed religious leaders. If we do question them, we are not humble and will not make it to paradise. In at least some instances, unity, love and obedience are more important than truth.
From user marshroanoke:
Some JWs have a false sense of security regarding truth in the organization. If God let his people fall into apostasy in the first centuries after Christ, why should we feel so sure that current leadership can't also be wrong about things? He/she generally believes that the JW organization has the truth, but feels it is the responsibility of believers to test the truth of everything, even if it comes from the org leadership. He/she says that too many JWs just trust everything they are told and value obedience more than truth. Interestingly, this conversation was quickly deleted from reddit (I'm going off of my memory for this recap, unfortunately). I don't know if the mods took it down or if the original poster did. Maybe it will show back up? I PMed the poster, and they said they could still see the conversation. Weird.
If this were switched to a Mormon paradigm, I think it would cover the gamut from TBM to NOM. It was a fascinating conversation.
Here's another interesting thread. I didn't participate in this one. Some believers are discussing an unsettling trend within the organization to emphasize patience and obedience rather than truth seeking and Bible knowledge. Again, you'll notice some familiar themes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JWs/comments/7 ... concerned/
From user thelurkerabides:
Teaching has indeed been watered down. This is to accommodate those who are weak in faith and those who are too busy to get deeper. Faith allows us to obey and be patient. Hopes the OP finds comfort in his/her concerns.
From user Dark-Luos:
Agrees with OP, but has found peace and happiness believing anyway. Forgive the shortcomings of leadership.
From user Moremoreor, in response to a deleted comment:
Complains about hidden apostates within the JWs who secretly teach that the leadership has gone apostate. Like Denver Snuffer?
Anyway, I think there are SO many parallels between Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses. I've found trying to understand them has helped me to understand myself. Also, having compassion and empathy for them has helped me have the same for my Mormon loved ones, and even leadership. (And before figuring out the compassion thing, it made me really mad for a long time.) I hope this stuff is of value to somebody here.
Cheers!
EDIT- user marshroanoke PMed me again and said he has apparently been "shadow banned" for his comments, which were indeed deleted by the mods. Yikes. Information control.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JWs/comments/7 ... t/dpjn74t/
Highlights
From user JW_DOT_ORG:
The organization's leadership is not perfect, and makes mistakes, but still has the truth. You are NOT allowed to openly disagree with leadership, or you'll be disfellowshipped (and shunned). If there are mistakes, Jehovah will get them all straitened out in time.
From user Moremoreor:
The organization may make mistakes from time to time, but they will not usually make big or significant mistakes. Even if they do, it's the job of believers to just wait for Jehovah to fix it. We are unqualified to question the anointed religious leaders. If we do question them, we are not humble and will not make it to paradise. In at least some instances, unity, love and obedience are more important than truth.
From user marshroanoke:
Some JWs have a false sense of security regarding truth in the organization. If God let his people fall into apostasy in the first centuries after Christ, why should we feel so sure that current leadership can't also be wrong about things? He/she generally believes that the JW organization has the truth, but feels it is the responsibility of believers to test the truth of everything, even if it comes from the org leadership. He/she says that too many JWs just trust everything they are told and value obedience more than truth. Interestingly, this conversation was quickly deleted from reddit (I'm going off of my memory for this recap, unfortunately). I don't know if the mods took it down or if the original poster did. Maybe it will show back up? I PMed the poster, and they said they could still see the conversation. Weird.
If this were switched to a Mormon paradigm, I think it would cover the gamut from TBM to NOM. It was a fascinating conversation.
Here's another interesting thread. I didn't participate in this one. Some believers are discussing an unsettling trend within the organization to emphasize patience and obedience rather than truth seeking and Bible knowledge. Again, you'll notice some familiar themes.
https://www.reddit.com/r/JWs/comments/7 ... concerned/
From user thelurkerabides:
Teaching has indeed been watered down. This is to accommodate those who are weak in faith and those who are too busy to get deeper. Faith allows us to obey and be patient. Hopes the OP finds comfort in his/her concerns.
From user Dark-Luos:
Agrees with OP, but has found peace and happiness believing anyway. Forgive the shortcomings of leadership.
From user Moremoreor, in response to a deleted comment:
Complains about hidden apostates within the JWs who secretly teach that the leadership has gone apostate. Like Denver Snuffer?
Anyway, I think there are SO many parallels between Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses. I've found trying to understand them has helped me to understand myself. Also, having compassion and empathy for them has helped me have the same for my Mormon loved ones, and even leadership. (And before figuring out the compassion thing, it made me really mad for a long time.) I hope this stuff is of value to somebody here.
Cheers!
EDIT- user marshroanoke PMed me again and said he has apparently been "shadow banned" for his comments, which were indeed deleted by the mods. Yikes. Information control.