NOM

http://www.sltrib.com/pb/religion/local ... e-to-serve

So many thoughts but I will start with this: I am truly disturbed that written records go to Salt Lake containing details about what the prospective missionary needed to repent of.

I agree - these are harsh questions, but I also wonder what prompted them. The one about abusing a child is disconcerting (but probably needed, for scary reasons). We hear about teenage boys abusing sisters or cousins (or others), and never being brought to justice.

Here's a tip, COB - no kid is going to say, "Oh, yeah - I abused a child!" The question, if asked at all, should be phrased about inappropriate touching or using violence. Sexual abusers often dismiss their own behavior as not being abuse, and they rationalize things for other reasons. So maybe the COB needs to get to an underlying issue about the way those things are rarely (or never, in many cases) dealt with properly to begin with.

Sorry if this is triggering - it's probably not what I wanted to read on the heels of the Me Too thing.

Aside from what I wrote above, I know a few bishops I would NEVER want any teen to go before with these questions. There are far too many bullying bishops, and sadly, some of these are also people who would shove things under the rug when serious issues come before them. The same exact people who overlook harmful behaviors from abusers will also turn around and abuse a young man or young woman who maybe went a bit too far on a date, or who watched an R-rated movie, or who did anything else that bishop thinks is a "sin."

5. Full-time missionary service requires living gospel standards. What do you understand about the following standards?

a. The law of chastity

In reference to the law of chastity, have you always lived in accordance with what has been discussed?
If not, how long ago did the transgression(s) occur?
What have you done to repent?

Questions like this are problematic since the Bishop's own prurient interests might lead him to seek more details than necessary from the potential missionaries.

I would make a new question #1:

1. Is it truly your desire to serve a mission or are you doing this because others expect this of you?

LostGirl wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:06 pm So many thoughts but I will start with this: I am truly disturbed that written records go to Salt Lake containing details about what the prospective missionary needed to repent of.

Stake Presidents have already had their own lists of questions to cover with prospective missionaries. I once attended a stake priesthood leadership meeting and this was partially addressed by my stake president. It was emphasized tha the calling of YM leaders and fathers is to train young men to be ready for some pointed questions when meeting with the stake president. He said, "I will be asking them a list of questions that begin with 'Have you ever...'" While my stake president did not list the questions, the implied focus was on moral issues.

My big concern is over the real and implied guilt that will arise out of this questioning. This is particularly true for young adults that actually want to serve a faithful mission but cannot or should not based on emotional or physical health. LDS culture sets very high standards for youth with very little leeway on cultural pressure for young men and women that do not measure up. It takes a very strong man that can confess that they were raised in the church but did not serve a mission. All judgements immediately jump to the list of sticky moral infractions that might have kept him home.

Some young men might actually rise to the challenge. A lot won't, and the church lacks a good process for replacing the individual dignity that is systematically crushed in lists of worthiness questions and failing to serve a mission.

Concerning written records, you might also be surprised that forms are filled out that document the disciplinary councils. When I was a clerk I had to take notes and send them in. Now they are done online.

You can repent but the database never forgets!

One item of note is the word "masturbate" is not found in the questions. I'm sure it's implied in chastity, but the lack of the term itself is interesting.

Disturbing on so many levels. Hey, maybe they'll incorporate more probing questions with Q&A into the rank and file TR interview too. That would be awesome! Always up for a good rectal exam. Actually I could see this happening as a natural progression without any official instruction. Some bishops and SP's go off script already. This just makes it easier across the board.

On a side note, it was interesting the mention of closing a number of missions....

In addition, the Utah-based faith previewed plans to close a ”number of missions” — without listing specific ones — because the missionary force has decreased and leveled off after the surge that followed lowering the minimum age for missionary service.

No surprise here. I thought it would have dropped off even more. Will be interesting to see if it drops back down to the original level over the next five years. I wonder if the COB had other power point briefs that showed conversion rates didn't match force increases, meaning that throwing more and younger bodies at the Gentiles did not produce the desired return on investment.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:33 pm One item of note is the word "masturbate" is not found in the questions. I'm sure it's implied in chastity, but the lack of the term itself is interesting.

While it's not explicitly named, I'm sure the line
"Avoiding pornography"
is intended to accomplish much the same purpose.

Jeffret wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 4:33 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:33 pm One item of note is the word "masturbate" is not found in the questions. I'm sure it's implied in chastity, but the lack of the term itself is interesting.

While it's not explicitly named, I'm sure the line
"Avoiding pornography"
is intended to accomplish much the same purpose.

Right? If the right hand is double clicking, the left hand's probably sinning. Unless your left handed, then the right hand's gotta be holding to the rod!

These questions - except for the emphasis on mental health and speech and reading difficulties - do not represent anything new, do they?

Do you think that a Testimony bearing competition might be a worthwhile activity for the Young Men's program? It certainly could hone their skills in preparation for this missionary interview. Hey, if any Church employees assigned to monitoring the internet read this, feel free to pass along this idea.

moksha wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 5:49 pm These questions - except for the emphasis on mental health and speech and reading difficulties - do not represent anything new, do they?

Not that I know of and, it's my understanding that the mental health questions have been around since "Raising The Bar". I know that mental health was one of the new considerations for a mission as part of raising the bar. That and learning disabilities. I'm actually glad to see the consideration for learning disabilities, because missions can be very difficult for people with them. Raising The Bar was instituted when I was fairly newly married and I was glad to hear that the brethren were taking into account all these factors. I had known of two missionaries sent home for mental health reasons and I knew a returned missionary who had dyslexia and had struggled with the reading requirements.

I never went on a mission, so I'm going on what managed to stick as it went in one ear and out the other when mission calls were discussed in my youth. Mission calls originate from Salt Lake. That means that all the details from the interview would be sent to Salt Lake so the information could be taken into consideration when choosing where to send the missionary.

Wish they had not used the terminology "raising the bar" simply for how awful rejected candidates would feel when they did not measure up to the bar. On the other hand, their second choice was probably "weeding the tares".

==========
With some determined self-righteousness, the Church could pare down its membership to around two million of its highest tithing/most know it is all so true members and by scaling down be able to save a ton of money.

moksha wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:19 pm Wish they had not used the terminology "raising the bar" simply for how awful rejected candidates would feel when they did not measure up to the bar. On the other hand, their second choice was probably "weeding the tares".

Instead of "raising the bar" they should have used, "How to keep the bar.... from being raised".

Along with this new set of questions, I hope they're providing bishops with adequate guidance and support. The questions inquiring about abuse and criminal activities which have not been reported could put bishops in difficult legal situations. I've heard the church's legal hotline is expressly to protect the church. It's only ethical to also protect the bishops who've been required to ask these questions. Mandatory reporting laws vary by state, so the guidance would need to be individualized.

Did I read this right that if you're maybe not quite up to full snuff for a proselytizing mission you may still be OK for a service mission? Why would anyone want to go proselytizing if service is an option? Yes, ladies and gentlemen, serving your fellow being is tier 2 in the LDS Church.

I always look at these types of procedural changes through a legal lens. Question number six, seven, eight, and nine are prime examples.

To me when the Church mandates using these types of question it is simply a matter of them doing their due diligence when calling these young people. Then, if these young people misbehave, they are responsible and not the Church.

Silver Girl wrote: ↑Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:20 pm I agree - these are harsh questions, but I also wonder what prompted them.

My vote is: "Covering their butt legally."

Coop wrote: ↑Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:19 am I always look at these types of procedural changes through a legal lens. Question number six, seven, eight, and nine are prime examples.

To me when the Church mandates using these types of question it is simply a matter of them doing their due diligence when calling these young people. Then, if these young people misbehave, they are responsible and not the Church.

Exactly!