NOM

Do you guys mind if I vent a little? This is probably all going to be TMI, but that's better than TBM.

My son was just diagnosed with autism. He is a few months past three and still not talking. I love him more than anything and this diagnosis doesn't change anything except for making additional services available to us, but I'm so scared for him. I'm mainly scared he won't have friends, won't find a significant other, and won't have a fulfilling career. I'm also scared that he won't understand nuanced thinking and that as he is taken to church, he will be told I am an inferior, non-magic-power wielding father and take it to heart. I'm scared that this means they'll get their hooks in him while he's young and he will never really have the opportunity to view any of these stories as anything other than literal. And that it will hurt our relationship if/when I tell him I don't believe all those things.

Amidst all these worries, my wife and I have no support. There's not a single family member who lives within 1000 miles of us. When I decided to give living a standard Mormon life a shot, I alienated all my non-Mormon friends (most of whom don't live where I do anyway), and now I find that very few Mormon friends are anything more than "friends." There's not even a dependable babysitter in the ward or neighborhood! Between my wife and son and work and hobbies and whatnot, I have little time to help develop new friendships, and as an exhausted introvert, even when I do have time I usually just revert to hanging with family and reading/gaming. I feel the need for closer relationships, but it's so much harder when you're not in school.

School's a whole other issue! I was a straight-A student who wasted a ton of time and a fortune of money on multiple arts degrees that led to a low-paying government job not remotely related to my education. Now in my thirties, I'm finally learning to code, and I'm getting pretty good at it after a year. But I don't have anyone to talk to about it! I have a few friends/acquaintances/colleagues who are professional developers, and they'll talk to me a little, but they're so far past where I am and have no inclination or responsibility to look at my comparatively simple projects. I've tried to find a study group in my town using Meetup, but there's just nothing. Every day when I work on programming (which is ideally every single day), I'm simultaneously thrilled when I get new concepts to work, but so frustrated that I don't have anyone offering feedback, don't have anyone at my level to mutually push each other to get better, and am starting from so far behind. But I also feel this sense of urgency, man. With my son's diagnosis, I need to develop a skill that can actually make money, because I feel a drive to ensure that my son is taken care of, both to obtain services now and to provide comfortable living when we're gone. I've learned a lot in the past year, but I'm past 30 now. It just feels so slowgoing.

I feel annoyed with myself for feeling so unfulfilled and lonely, because my life is great in a number of ways. It's been about a year since I came out as non-believing to my wife, and she has been super cool, and I have felt so great having minimal affiliation with a church that was driving me to suicidal ideation just a few years ago. Despite my unsatisfying job, my wife's career is currently going swimmingly, and we're better off financially than we have ever been. We bought our first house and both have new-ish cars for the first time, and we just paid off our credit card (and are actively churning bonuses/rewards on new ones; credit is an awesome game when you have the means to play).

But perhaps the "mo' money, mo' problems" adage is true, because I just feel a constant crush to get things done, and I have so little external support. None of my family is Exmo. Most of my friends are either Nevermo or TBM, with the Exmos either being indifferent to the church or hostile, of which neither extreme really applies to me (although I'm working on being more indifferent by trying to occupy my time in other ways, but it's hard when Mormons are still living with you and calling and dropping by). I don't have anyone with which to enjoy delicious craft brews or high-quality vape-ables. I don't have anyone to discuss programming with, or Exmormon topics, or parenting of an autistic child.

I'm trying to reach out to my local community in various ways to solve this, but between being introverted, exhausted, stressed, and more inclined to just hang with family, I'm not getting very far. I suggest to my wife that we need to be setting up more play dates for our son, but the only suggestions she can come up with are Mormons. I'm not opposed to that; but it's not going to help me out of my current funk.

How does one start a social life basically from scratch in one's 30s with limited time and inclination to actually put oneself out there?

Vent away!

It sounds like you and your son are lucky to have each other, and your DW too.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:11 am How does one start a social life basically from scratch in one's 30s with limited time and inclination to actually put oneself out there?

That's the question. Like you, I spend most of my time with work and my family, there's just not time for much else. My wife has made some friends by joining a dance troop. I make "friends" at work. But my closest friends are growing more distant as we spend less time together, and as my new beliefs drive a wedge between me and my TBM friends.

Let me know when you figure it out. And good luck learning to code!!

This is a tough situation and I sure it feels entirely intractable. My wife and I absolutely felt that way with four young children and one mildly on the autism scale. It felt endless when we were in the thick of Primary age children but it eventualy does get easier. As a fellow introvert I readily sympathize with time constraints. It takes a real expenditure of emotional energy to get with a new social group. Still, I consistently enjoy the perspective and association that comes from interacting with others.

Can I ask what you program in? These days I mainly do scripting (BASH, Python, PHP) but I do a lot of database programming also. I definitely recommend the Laravel framework if you are using PHP. I don't know where you live, but I do recommend finding a local user group in your favorite tool set. If you are in Arizona, send me a PM and I can recommend some specific groups.

It is something I struggle with as well. Between work and family there is very little i can get into.

One thing I have found is to explore your interests. For me, it's ham radio. I am a member of a local club and we get together a couple times a months. I attend as much as I can. We also have various community events that we participate in as well. It's not the same level of involvement as Mormonism, but it a step. It's getting out, meeting people with a common interest, and everyone knows that we work around each other's schedules.

I would suggest look at what some of your interests are and see if you have any groups in your area. Facebook is a good way to find groups in your area.

Edit:
Something that occurred to me about church vs outside communities. In the church, you are expected to attend every thing possible. If you miss something, unless it was a major medical emergency, you will be guilted for doing so. In the outside world, groups tend to be very understanding about limitation in time and involvement. it's interesting the difference.

Corsair wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:37 am Can I ask what you program in? These days I mainly do scripting (BASH, Python, PHP) but I do a lot of database programming also. I definitely recommend the Laravel framework if you are using PHP. I don't know where you live, but I do recommend finding a local user group in your favorite tool set. If you are in Arizona, send me a PM and I can recommend some specific groups.

Yeah, I'm going to work on finding people to work with more. I think it's important to get to the next level, but my searching so far has turned up basically nothing. I'm in Tallahassee, Florida (it's not like all the personal details I've shared here wouldn't identify me to anyone who knows me anyway ).

I guess I consider C++ to be my "main" language. I took a couple online community college courses in it, and I have a over 1100 lines of code written for a couple console programs (soon to be combined into one program, I think) that help automate an annoying part of my job.

I have worked through about half of the front-end developer certificate on FreeCodeCamp.com, so I'm pretty okay with HTML, CSS, and JavaScript, but not quite as comfortable as with C++. I think really getting a good handle on jQuery is my next goal in this area, but I'm not sure I want to be a web developer, so it hasn't been a priority.

I also took a SQL class online at the community college, but it only went over commands with a pre-existing database, so I have no idea how to actually build a database from scratch, or how to incorporate SQL commands with other programming languages to use databases in programs. That class was largely a waste of time and money.

And finally, I recently finished the entire Python course on Codecademy.com, and I like the language a lot, but I haven't done even any small projects for it. I'm not even clear on if I need to get an IDE to compile or if it's interpreted like JS. Google says a little of both?

I just need to find a study partner who's at my same level. The one thing I haven't done at all is debugged/critiqued other people's code, and I think that helping others would help me a lot too. (I think there's a primary song about that?) It's funny how much every time someone mentions they're in school, I'm like, "Oh, no way! What do you study???" ever so hopeful that it will be computer science, but alas...these poor kids are going to be just as underemployed as I am in ten years.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:58 am I guess I consider C++ to be my "main" language. I took a couple online community college courses in it, and I have a over 1100 lines of code written for a couple console programs (soon to be combined into one program, I think) that help automate an annoying part of my job.

It sounds like you are on the right track. I recommend finding an open source project on Github where you will definitely come in contact with other people's code. Take some projects that are finished and try to modify them a bit just to have the experience of working on a mature project. I am really lucky to have two brothers who also program in very different environments. We have an interesting perspective when we get together.

This certainly does not solve the work-life balance issues especially when young, special needs children are pressing down one side of that balance. It's a crucible of hard discipline and I can hardly claim that I came out as a shining example.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:11 am Do you guys mind if I vent a little?
...
How does one start a social life basically from scratch in one's 30s with limited time and inclination to actually put oneself out there?

Sorry, I feel your pain. Raising a child with autism is difficult. I'm so glad you were able to get him diagnosed. We didn't know our son has high-functioning autism (Aspergers) until he came home early from his mission with depression and suicidal thoughts.

As far as starting a social life, I have the same problem, except I'm in my 40s. Social settings exhaust me quickly, I'm very introverted, but I also know I could use some close friends. I haven't had a close friend (except for my wife of course) since college. It is so much easier when you're in school to develop those relationships. Sorry, don't have any good advice for you, I haven't figured it out yet either.

Autism support group. Find one.

Brent wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:34 pm Autism support group. Find one.

On a couple local ones on Facebook. Made a post and got some nice responses. We’ll be joining for age-appropriate community events and hopefully will make some friends (for him and/or us).

Deepthinker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:28 pm Sorry, I feel your pain. Raising a child with autism is difficult. I'm so glad you were able to get him diagnosed. We didn't know our son has high-functioning autism (Aspergers) until he came home early from his mission with depression and suicidal thoughts.

That must have been an unpleasant way to find out. And there must be so much you recognize in retrospect. Was he speech-delayed? It’s driving me crazy! He’s been on the verge of talking for two years!

Brent wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:34 pm Autism support group. Find one.

This!

You will learn a lot from other parents of kids with autism. Each autistic child is different, but there are things you would not really expect to be related to autism, like frequent allergies, that you will learn about from other parents. You can learn things that will make your life easier, such as the parenting skills you will need.

So, that support group can help both with your experience with your son, and the social isolation.

I raised a child that we didn't know was on the autism spectrum. Especially with girls, they are learning so much than was known just a few years ago. So, what was just a "difficult child" can now be diagnosed and helped. So, don't give up on your child having a pretty close to normal life. I know one boy whose parents were told that if he was not talking by four, he never would talk. He didn't say one word until he was six, and now they can't shut the kid up. He is very close to a normal teen. Sure, people on the autism spectrum will always be a bit odd, and maybe even less social than us introverts, but they can make friends and get married and lead a pretty normal life.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:42 pm

Deepthinker wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:28 pm Sorry, I feel your pain. Raising a child with autism is difficult. I'm so glad you were able to get him diagnosed. We didn't know our son has high-functioning autism (Aspergers) until he came home early from his mission with depression and suicidal thoughts.

That must have been an unpleasant way to find out. And there must be so much you recognize in retrospect. Was he speech-delayed? It’s driving me crazy! He’s been on the verge of talking for two years!

Yes, it was. There were some signs, we just didn't recognize them because he is high-functioning. He wasn't really speech-delayed. With Aspergers, the root cause is an inability to handle certain senses, and it can be multiple senses. It could be the smell of olives, or just heat in general. Their mind doesn't create a filter to handle those senses, so they retreat into their own world they create. For our son, he would do things like line up all his toy cars in a row but not really play with them. He can't stand noise above a certain decibel, and is sensitive to heat (he went to Ghana on his mission, which wasn't the best environment for that sensitivity). He said he had thoughts of just riding his bike in front of bus to end it all. It was awful to find that out. When he came home we had him professionally evaluated and diagnosed. DW still will say how she thinks it was porn (son confessed this to his Mission President) that caused him to be sent home. Go figure, that mindset just infuriates me.

I agree with others that getting into an autism support group is a great idea. I may look into doing that myself.

I didn't read replies yet, but wanted to respond. I work with autism quite a bit. If you have insurance, look to see what your coverage is for ABA therapy. Get a good behavior analyst (there's a lot of bad ABA out there, but good ABA can work miracles). The progress between now and 7 years old is gong to make the biggest difference for his functioning later.

The kids wth autism that I know are incredible people. I believe many of them will live independently and maybe marry.

Thinking of you.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:11 am School's a whole other issue! I was a straight-A student who wasted a ton of time and a fortune of money on multiple arts degrees that led to a low-paying government job not remotely related to my education. Now in my thirties, I'm finally learning to code, and I'm getting pretty good at it after a year. But I don't have anyone to talk to about it! I have a few friends/acquaintances/colleagues who are professional developers, and they'll talk to me a little, but they're so far past where I am and have no inclination or responsibility to look at my comparatively simple projects. I've tried to find a study group in my town using Meetup, but there's just nothing. Every day when I work on programming (which is ideally every single day), I'm simultaneously thrilled when I get new concepts to work, but so frustrated that I don't have anyone offering feedback, don't have anyone at my level to mutually push each other to get better, and am starting from so far behind. But I also feel this sense of urgency, man. With my son's diagnosis, I need to develop a skill that can actually make money, because I feel a drive to ensure that my son is taken care of, both to obtain services now and to provide comfortable living when we're gone. I've learned a lot in the past year, but I'm past 30 now. It just feels so slowgoing.

I have a couple of degrees in the humanities and overall they aren't as lucrative as other degrees I couldn't have gotten, but I didn't get them with the goal or understanding of how to capitalize on them. I could do something with them, but here I am years down the road...it's tough. Even my husband who has a STEM degree struggles with making it meaningful. Just because it's STEM doesn't mean it's lucrative. He wishes he'd taken another track. A friend sent us this link (sorry, I have no idea how to link it better):

https://www.udacity.com/grow-with-googl ... 8d6209ac49

I don't know that it's helpful, but I thought of you when we got it.

Making friends as an adult is hard. When you're a kid, you can be best friends because you like the same color, as a teenager you like the same music, at college you live in the same dorm/apartment and take the same class, in the church you serve in complementary callings and live in the same zip code, as an adult out of the church...you have to go and make your own opportunities. More difficult still is when you're an introvert and going out and doing the things to meet people are often unpleasant and overwhelming tasks.

MerrieMiss wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:17 am Making friends as an adult is hard. When you're a kid, you can be best friends because you like the same color, as a teenager you like the same music, at college you live in the same dorm/apartment and take the same class, in the church you serve in complementary callings and live in the same zip code, as an adult out of the church...you have to go and make your own opportunities. More difficult still is when you're an introvert and going out and doing the things to meet people are often unpleasant and overwhelming tasks.

You get me, MerrieMiss.

Thanks for the Udacity link. I actually started one of their courses recently, but I hadn't seen this scholarship thing. Looks cool! I'm going to apply today. Thanks again!

A few days ago there was a news story on Utah Fox13 about LDS Author Richard Paul Evans starting up a group for men called "Tribe of Kyngs" which is basically a social club for adult men who lack a social connection with their peers. Seemed kind of weird and creepy to me, but it is attempting to highlight the social deficit that many modern adult men have. The problem with the name for me is it seems too close to the anti-feminist "Return of Kings" group. I also find midevil pagentry too close to the masonic stuff we find creepy in mormonism. Novel idea though.

http://fox13now.com/2017/11/09/tribe-of ... ens-group/