NOM

So it's been quite a while since the Highlander clan has stepped foot in an LDS chapel; can count the number on three fingers over the past couple of years. But today was in support of TBM family blessing a baby, so one hour was not going to kill us...or would it?

We had to trek south to Orem and on the way I thought of a really bad Dad joke:
"Why is there a paper shortage in Orem?"
"Because everyone loves Oremgami!"
DW and DD groan with angst.

DD definitely was fearing she was headed for the 3 hour block, but was relieved when we told her it was just the first hr SM (plus 10). DW was fine until about half way through when she got emotional. She wasn't feeling well and all the music and looking at the new baby just triggered off emotion and cogdis. I was fine, it didn't feel strange or weird, just some empathy for all the folks plugged into the matrix. I was relieved it was not a FTM. DD asked me if I was going to partake of the sacrament. I told her I would and that she could because it was just a meaningless ritual JS made up; now it's just part of our heritage, so it held no weight as far any real eternal damnation. Her concern was sitting next to TBM grandma and we are not rocking that boat right now.

This might be an interesting survey question to ask NOMdom. If you are in the attending but no longer believing camp, to the point you no longer believe the sacrament has any magical power over your salvation, do you still take it for the benefit of your TBM fam and friends, so as not to cause cogdis? Or do you feel you can't participate based on principal of any subjection to the authority of the COB, like a protest? Anyway, maybe we can fire that one up in another thread.

Everything about this SM was very much the same as 90% of the wards in Utah. The talks were the same, music of course, announcements definitely, it was right on par. The only talk that bothered me was a YW speaker talking about the BOM. She started by talking about the evidences that support the BOMs authenticity. This made my ears itch a bit. But then I was disappointed because all she mentioned were the same old crappy things:
- Two guys did a linguistic style study and found it was multiple authorship
- JS only had a third grade education and could not have written it
- I can't remember the rest because I checked out and we back to looking at pics on my phone at this point, just feeling sorry for the poor sister who was obviously doing her gymnastics to make it work for her.
She follow up the her list of evidences by stating that it's not the evidences that matter (then why did you mention them?) that it was the feelings you get when you read it, confirming to your spirit it's true.

The speaker with the British accent was mildly entertaining at the beginning; he talked about all his imperfections and said his XW had written a 15 page letter listing all his imperfections and still had not gotten them all. It got a few chuckles.

Only other thing to report is that I sang all the hymns...well, all of them except the last one. I cannot sing Praise to the Man. Maybe if they changed the words so that it was historically accurate: Praise to the man who found a stone in a well but never found any treasure but was happy to take money for it. Who lied to women and young girls they needed to marry him in a new and everlasting covenant or an angel would kill him. Who lied to his wife about those women. Who was really good and borrowing ideas and collaborating with others to create an elaborate literary work and pass it off as scripture. Okay, I think that's enough verses to the new version of that hymn, feel free to add your own if you like.

How's Orem these days? I spent 15 years going to church there.

I'm glad you made it through ok. I'm still going pretty much every week to support DW and keep the public face that I am TBM. Smartphones are a life saver when people hit hot-button topics. I also sing the hymns, I really enjoy the singing, though there are some I skip as well. I skipped "I Stand All Amazed" yesterday because it was the song I used to use to try to fight "bad" thoughts as a youth.

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:56 pm This might be an interesting survey question to ask NOMdom. If you are in the attending but no longer believing camp, to the point you no longer believe the sacrament has any magical power over your salvation, do you still take it for the benefit of your TBM fam and friends, so as not to cause cogdis? Or do you feel you can't participate based on principal of any subjection to the authority of the COB, like a protest? Anyway, maybe we can fire that one up in another thread.

I no longer believe there is anything other than social consequences for taking the sacrament, so I take it for my wife's sake. She doesn't want to be a church widow or a pariah or to have any special attention, so I can give her that. She knows where I stand, and the rest of the ward doesn't need to know.

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:56 pm This might be an interesting survey question to ask NOMdom. If you are in the attending but no longer believing camp, to the point you no longer believe the sacrament has any magical power over your salvation, do you still take it for the benefit of your TBM fam and friends, so as not to cause cogdis? Or do you feel you can't participate based on principal of any subjection to the authority of the COB, like a protest? Anyway, maybe we can fire that one up in another thread.

I take it out of habit. I don't think about it any more than I think about shaking someone's hand, greeting someone I meet, looking both ways before I cross the street, or whatever. It's meaningless to me, I'm there, it's passed to me, I don't really care. I suppose what bothers me more is that I attend the meeting where they pass out the bread I don't believe in. Once I'm there, the fact I take the sacrament is irrelevant. The plastic cups really get to me though - I mean, think of the landfills full of those little plastic cups...

Nice return and report.

I usually show up after sacrament. But I like taking it. For me, the bread and water symbolize balance and harmony. I don't believe in priesthood power. But I can accept this as a tradition where I can reflect, give thanks etc.

Cute story:
So this past Sunday I was in the foyer and one of my primary kids who is now a deacon was passing the sacrament for the first time. This kid reminds me of Charlie Kelly from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia." He ran up to me and gave me a hug, almost spilling the bread tray, and said "I'm so glad I got to pass the sacrament to you!" They probably told him to not to talk to or hug people when you pass the sacrament, but I was really proud that he was already breaking the rules.

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:56 pm This might be an interesting survey question to ask NOMdom. If you are in the attending but no longer believing camp, to the point you no longer believe the sacrament has any magical power over your salvation, do you still take it for the benefit of your TBM fam and friends, so as not to cause cogdis? Or do you feel you can't participate based on principal of any subjection to the authority of the COB, like a protest?

I don't attend more, but my story about the sacrament comes from when I was still attending:

At some point during my finding out the truth about the LDS Corporation, I recalled a talk in one of those "special" sacrament meetings where a GA showed up, and they basically turned the meeting over to him. He got up and preached a sermon about the sacrament, about how that was the most important part of the three hour block, and in fact the most important thing we could do each week. During my awakening, I remembered this sermon, and decided to put it to the test: If the sacrament was the most important thing I could do each week, then if I didn't participate, I should notice something different in my life. So I stopped taking the sacrament, and guess what? After a few weeks of putting it to the test, NOTHING changed in my life. The "most important thing I can do each week" according to one of mormon god's "Prophets, seers or revelators" made absolutely no difference whatsoever.

I haven't done the symbolic cannibalism thing at any church meeting since.

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:56 pm This might be an interesting survey question to ask NOMdom. If you are in the attending but no longer believing camp, to the point you no longer believe the sacrament has any magical power over your salvation, do you still take it for the benefit of your TBM fam and friends, so as not to cause cogdis? Or do you feel you can't participate based on principal of any subjection to the authority of the COB, like a protest? Anyway, maybe we can fire that one up in another thread.

I still actually attend all three hours each week, although I skip Sunday School about half of the time. I certainly frame the teachinsg and meetings differently than a believer. There is an element of still attending with my wife because of my appreciation for her. But we have been in this ward for several years and I have a lot of friends in the ward. If we were to move elsewhere I would probably cut back my involvement.

I work with the scouts and I actually enjoy doing that. if I got moved to a different calling that would also affect my activity. I participate because it serves my needs at the moment.

MoPag wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:08 am Cute story:
So this past Sunday I was in the foyer and one of my primary kids who is now a deacon was passing the sacrament for the first time. This kid reminds me of Charlie Kelly from "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia." He ran up to me and gave me a hug, almost spilling the bread tray, and said "I'm so glad I got to pass the sacrament to you!" They probably told him to not to talk to or hug people when you pass the sacrament, but I was really proud that he was already breaking the rules.

Good story! It is fun to see how excited YM can be to participate and feel like they are part of something important. On the flippity, I cringe when they are put under pressure to say that prayer perfectly or trip or make a mistake and have to deal with the public shaming. Also, the non-participation of the YW in the rituals is one-sided. Maybe someday.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:57 am So I stopped taking the sacrament, and guess what? After a few weeks of putting it to the test, NOTHING changed in my life. The "most important thing I can do each week" according to one of mormon god's "Prophets, seers or revelators" mad absolutely no difference whatsoever.

I haven't done the symbolic cannibalism thing at any church meeting since.

I like the "prove me now herewith" method Fluff. I used that same method when I was in transit. Basically stopped paying tiths and got rid of the angel and devil, had a beer with friends once in a while and like your results, life actually improved.

Unlike my DW and DD, I was also glad that I'm now okay with where I am, that I can sit comfortably and confidently in a TBM meeting and not feel weird about it, because I understand it and see it for what it is. I do feel sorry for all those still plugged in and drinking the koolaid but I try not to feel smug about it either because it wasn't long ago I was doing the same thing.

Linked wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:31 am How's Orem these days? I spent 15 years going to church there.

To me it does not feel like it's changed much, but then I only get down there maybe twice a year as we live up at the mouth of Weber Canyon. Unless I'm heading to S. Utah to a great red rock adventure, I avoid trying to get around point of the mountain with the traffic. At least Sunday mornings are an easy drive. I do love shooting pic around Utah Lake, given the opportunity.

Sacrament: I took it for 6 years, because it shows you are in the club and that is why I was going to church anyway, because I wanted to be in the club. Of course God care level about the Mormon sacrament is zero. I am out as an apostate to my bishop, so I don't any more out of respect for his feelings.

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:24 pm Sacrament: I took it for 6 years, because it shows you are in the club and that is why I was going to church anyway, because I wanted to be in the club. Of course God care level about the Mormon sacrament is zero. I am out as an apostate to my bishop, so I don't any more out of respect for his feelings.

Yeah, I didn't think about that GoodBoy. If I had attended a baby blessing in my own ward or stake, game over on looking the part of a TBM; I would not partake.