NOM

News today says that Boy Scouts will soon allow girls into the club to earn all the same awards up to Eagle Scout. Interesting change considering the church just bailed on Scouts...I have a hunch they knew this was coming.

Thoughts?

didyoumythme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:32 am News today says that Boy Scouts will soon allow girls into the club to earn all the same awards up to Eagle Scout. Interesting change considering the church just bailed on Scouts...I have a hunch they knew this was coming.

Thoughts?

This is interesting. Do you have a link to this story? The LDS church probably did get this message in advance. And I doubt that the Beehive group of 12-13 year old girls will be joining scouts even though the Deacons are still fully and officially participating.

I am trying to think how a non-LDS troop will deal with a girl that wants to join. It adds a bunch of complications to troop leadership, especially with two-deep leadership requirements. The Youth Protection training that I have been through in scouts already required gender appropriate leadership for mixed gender activities. The Explorer posts already have quite a few rules in place since older teenage boys and girls do participate in those groups already. But I have not seen younger scouts have any inclusion of similar age girls.

https://apnews.com/7f690adec7ad45d2a946 ... _medium=AP

It's very surprising but they have been working on it. I completed a survey on it a while back. Surprising to see such a dramatic change so quickly, but we've known they were looking into changes in this area.

Maybe this will be the news that finally does TSM in.

Actually I would love to a fly on the wall in the meeting when the Q15 have to discuss this.

In most of the rest of the world there are not separate organizations for Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. There is just scouting, for boys and girls. The other countries find the U.S.A. weird, especially at international scouting events.

The Girl Scouts of America is not very happy about this change. It undercuts their programs, pulling them into "Boy" scouts.

I'd like to see the best of both programs merged together into Scouts of America.

Corsair wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:50 am I am trying to think how a non-LDS troop will deal with a girl that wants to join.

Jeffret provided a link above (hard for me on mobile right now). Aparrently girls will be allowed in, but there will still be separate troops for boys and girls...which is strange. They will need to change their name to just "scouts of America" or something (and get rid of Girl Scouts?).

Jeffret wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:07 am I'd like to see the best of both programs merged together into Scouts of America.

Popcorn cookies?

nibbler wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:45 am Popcorn cookies?

Uggh. No. Dump the popcorn and just go with the cookies. I said the best of both programs, not just everything from both programs.

It could also be that they would have done this earlier if the church weren't there to pressure them. Interesting development. I was really sad when I heard that the church was quitting scouts. It was really positive for me, and it was not nearly so churchy as what they'll likely replace it with.

nibbler wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:45 am

Popcorn cookies?

My DD is a Girl Scout. It is a great program. It totally blows Activity Days and Personal Progress out of the water.

I don't know. I almost kind of feel like the church's allegiance to BSA will hinge on who scares them more: the gays or empowered girls.

MoPag wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:13 pm My DD is a Girl Scout. It is a great program. It totally blows Activity Days and Personal Progress out of the water.

I don't know. I almost kind of feel like the church's allegiance to BSA will hinge on who scares them more: the gays or empowered girls.

How will the fear of gays matter in that consideration?

A quick survey among my scout troop suggests most of the teachers and priests will start participating in scouting again if we have co-ed overnight campouts.

Jeffret wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:21 pm

MoPag wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:13 pm My DD is a Girl Scout. It is a great program. It totally blows Activity Days and Personal Progress out of the water.

I don't know. I almost kind of feel like the church's allegiance to BSA will hinge on who scares them more: the gays or empowered girls.

How will the fear of gays matter in that consideration?

I'm thinking about what finally makes them cut ties all together. They took a big step back when they allowed gays into scouts. Will allowing girls make them leave all together? Also what would have happened if they had allowed girls in first before admitting gays? Would the church have acted differently? Women and the LGBT community are both marginalized groups within the church.

Some weights for the TBM shelf.

https://www.lds.org/new-era/2010/02/a-p ... d?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostl ... g?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/callings/aaronic-pr ... g?lang=eng

http://www.ldsbsa.org/blog/macs-message ... riesthood/

https://www.google.com/search?q=scoutin ... LIQgTYIjAU

didyoumythme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:32 amNews today says that Boy Scouts will soon allow girls into the club to earn all the same awards up to Eagle Scout. Interesting change considering the church just bailed on Scouts...

I believe they just bailed on the Venture and Explorer age groups, but I wouldn't be surprised if this brings an end to participation in regular scouting. Imagine the joy when the kids find out they'll be doing all Duty to God all of the time!

On the way home, I was listening to Ksl discuss it. One caller mentioned it was "pointless (around here) with the young women's programs" and stated that this "desperate move" to increase membership wouldn't work, asking "why any young girl would be willing to join an organization ran with only old men calling the shots?" I really think the irony was lost on her and show.

mooseman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:03 pm On the way home, I was listening to Ksl discuss it. One caller mentioned it was "pointless (around here) with the young women's programs" and stated that this "desperate move" to increase membership wouldn't work, asking "why any young girl would be willing to join an organization ran with only old men calling the shots?" I really think the irony was lost on her and show.

I might just have to take breaks in writing to laugh.

Because as more and more girls come in, so will female leaders. There is more chance to see visible female leadership, leading both males and females under this new paradigm. Scouting consciously teaches character attributes. Scouting teaches important life skills. Scouting has merit badges that expose scouts to potential career paths and encourages exploration. The eagle scout award mimics pretty well a real world work situation and what it takes to accomplish a difficult project.

That's why. Better transfer the cookies over. A lot of people will be miffed if they don't. I think the cookies are the real reason they did this.

Give It Time wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:26 pm

mooseman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:03 pm On the way home, I was listening to Ksl discuss it. One caller mentioned it was "pointless (around here) with the young women's programs" and stated that this "desperate move" to increase membership wouldn't work, asking "why any young girl would be willing to join an organization ran with only old men calling the shots?" I really think the irony was lost on her and show.

I might just have to take breaks in writing to laugh.

Because as more and more girls come in, so will female leaders. There is more chance to see visible female leadership, leading both males and females under this new paradigm. Scouting consciously teaches character attributes. Scouting teaches important life skills. Scouting has merit badges that expose scouts to potential career paths and encourages exploration. The eagle scout award mimics pretty well a real world work situation and what it takes to accomplish a difficult project.

That's why. Better transfer the cookies over. A lot of people will be miffed if they don't. I think the cookies are the real reason they did this.

There are already a lot of female leaders in BSA. I believe one of the LDS members of the board is a member of the general primary presidency, even. Scout camp staffs also include a lot of young women; it may be a majority. I think there won't be much trouble attracting women as members and leaders. Parity could be achieved pretty fast.

I think the biggest culture clash of merging BSA and GSA would be over youth protection. Girl Scouts are way more careful about leader interactions. They don't give carte blanche to chartering organizations to choose their own leaders like BSA does. The church would fight that change with everything they've got, but I don't think they could win. BSA has already put the LDS leaders in their place. Girl Scouts may also be worried about being lost in the merger. I would guess there would have to be a lot of discussion before a merger happens. However, I am sure that BSA would love to have the cookie sales as you note, so Girl Scouts would have some leverage. I say make the change.

It would still be possible to have single sex units if that is needed. BSA could spend some time looking at organizations in other countries to figure out what would work best. It would be challenging, but if no changes are made scouting in the USA will continue to stagnate.

mooseman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:03 pm One caller mentioned it was "pointless (around here) with the young women's programs" and stated that this "desperate move" to increase membership wouldn't work, asking "why any young girl would be willing to join an organization ran with only old men calling the shots?" I really think the irony was lost on her and show.

Wow.

I've seen a lot of talk of the church leaving BSA over this, but I could see the church adopting it. Maybe I'm out of touch, but I don't think there would be much backlash if the church embraced scouting for girls and put them in their own troops. I'm not saying it will happen, but I don't think it would take long for that to be the new normal, with the 12-13 year old boys and girls doing scouts separately and then after that both leave scouting. Maybe that is why the church is getting rid of the Venturing and Varsity, because they don't want to pay for all those groups and they are going to move the funding to the YW. That would be nice.