Page 1 of 1
No Revelation for You!
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:37 pm
by consiglieri
In his Priesthood Session address, President Eyring admitted what many have long suspected.
Although the church gives lip service to the idea of members getting personal revelation, what they really mean is that members have the right to get only one kind of revelation--revelation that what their leaders are saying is true.
I admit I was surprised to hear President Eyring actually say it in these words:
My dear brethren who hold the priesthood of God, tonight I wish to speak about the wonderful way in which the Lord leads His kingdom on earth. You already know the fundamentals. I pray that the Holy Ghost will confirm them to you.
First, Jesus Christ is the head of the Church in all the earth.
Second, He leads His Church today by speaking to men called as prophets, and He does it through revelation.
Third, He gave revelation to His prophets long ago, still does, and will continue to do so.
Fourth, He gives confirming revelation to those who serve under the leadership of His prophets.
From those fundamentals, we recognize that the Lord’s leadership of His Church requires great and steady faith from all who serve Him on earth.
Re: No Revelation for You!
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:00 pm
by Palerider
What this amounts to is institutional protectionism. "When we want your opinion, we'll give it to you..."
And the really twisted aspect of this...?... is how disarmingly friendly he is when he tells you that you don't matter. After attending a leadership conference with Eyring and seeing him up close,(10 feet away) bear "testimony" of the BofM, I immediately had the impression he wasn't telling the truth. I think he's very deceptive and he does it in a good old, grandfatherly way.
Also, I've never seen anyone consistently get so emotional while giving his talks without shedding any real tears. He's totally faking it.

Re: No Revelation for You!
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:12 pm
by Emower
consiglieri wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:37 pm
In his Priesthood Session address, President Eyring admitted what many have long suspected.
Although the church gives lip service to the idea of members getting personal revelation, what they really mean is that members have the right to get only one kind of revelation--revelation that what their leaders are saying is true.
I admit I was surprised to hear President Eyring actually say it in these words:
My dear brethren who hold the priesthood of God, tonight I wish to speak about the wonderful way in which the Lord leads His kingdom on earth. You already know the fundamentals. I pray that the Holy Ghost will confirm them to you.
First, Jesus Christ is the head of the Church in all the earth.
Second, He leads His Church today by speaking to men called as prophets, and He does it through revelation.
Third, He gave revelation to His prophets long ago, still does, and will continue to do so.
Fourth, He gives confirming revelation to those who serve under the leadership of His prophets.
From those fundamentals, we recognize that the Lord’s leadership of His Church requires great and steady faith from all who serve Him on earth.
These days I am trying to have a more open mind then I have had in the past few years. While it is true that revelation confirming what the prophets say is true is easily the personal revelation that gets talked about the most, Eyring does not say that these 4 fundamentals are to the exclusion of all else. It may be implied, but not said. That is the real trouble. Things that they really want to say are often heavily implied because they dont sound "right" to say aloud.
Re: No Revelation for You!
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:20 pm
by consiglieri
GC talks are masterpieces of implying without saying.
And President Eyring goes on to tell a wonderful story on himself. He is laughing. The audience is laughing. It is a really nice moment.
Unfortunately, the lessons being drawn from this story are less than funny to me.
I remember one young man who asked for counsel about his educational choices. He was a freshman at a very good university. A week after I had given the advice, he scheduled an appointment with me.
When he came into the office, he surprised me by asking, “Bishop, could we pray before we talk? And could we kneel? And may I pray?”
His requests surprised me. But his prayer surprised me even more. It went something like this: “Heavenly Father, You know that Bishop Eyring gave me advice last week, and it didn’t work. Please inspire him to know what I am to do now.”
Now you might smile at that, but I didn’t. He already knew what the Lord wanted him to do. But he honored the office of a bishop in the Lord’s Church and perhaps wanted me to have the chance to gain greater confidence to receive revelation in that calling.
It worked. As soon as we stood up and then sat down, the revelation came to me. I told him what I felt the Lord would have him do. He was only 18 years old then, but he was mature in spiritual years.
He already knew he didn’t need to go to a bishop on such a problem. But he had learned to sustain the Lord’s servant even in his mortal weaknesses. He eventually became a stake president. He carried with him the lesson we learned together: if you have faith that the Lord leads His Church through revelation to those imperfect servants He calls, the Lord will open the windows of heaven to them, as He will to you.
From that experience, I carried away the lesson that the faith of the people we serve, sometimes more than our own faith, brings us revelation in the Lord’s service.
There was another lesson for me. If that boy had judged me for my failure to give him good advice the first time, he never would have come back to ask again. And so, by choosing not to judge me, he received the confirmation he desired.
Yet another lesson from that experience has served me well. As far as I know, he never told anyone in the ward that I had not given good counsel at first. Had he done that, it might have reduced the faith of others in the ward to trust the bishop’s inspiration.
I try not to judge servants of the Lord or to speak of their apparent weaknesses. And I try to teach that by example to my children.
Re: No Revelation for You!
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:22 pm
by Red Ryder
Revelation = nothing more than voices in your head telling you to eat a ham sandwich. I'm hungry, craving a sandwich. What should I eat? A ham sandwich? That's a good idea.... I love ham sandwiches.
Personal revelation = The voices in your head.
Personal revelation in the temple = the voices in your head while you're in the temple.
Prophetic revelation = The voices in the prophets head.
Prophetic revelation in conference = the voices in the prophets head that he verbalized during conference.
It's all a bunch of Hokus Pokus!
Mic drop.... I'm out!
Re: No Revelation for You!
Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:56 pm
by EternityIsNow
Eyering was obviously making the point that has been made before that church governance is by revelation to the top leadership only. Ordinary members should not receive revelation for the church. I don't think he was implying that there is no personal revelation, only clarifying its limits with regard to church governance. So basically, you can not receive a revelation telling you gay marriage is OK with God. But you could receive revelations about scores of other things.
Not that I believe any of this, just clarifying what his subtext seems to be saying.
And for the record, I believe I had a revelation saying gay marriage is OK with God, because I have seen what a blessing it can be in some people's lives.
Yea, this does seem to be an attempt to discredit the groups of critics who work from the basis of their own revelations differing from the church leadership. And maybe he wants to shut the door in a typical authoritarian way on any real-life input from members, but I'm not sure that was his intent. This seems to be about revelation claims related to church leadership only.
Re: No Revelation for You!
Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:47 am
by 1smartdodog
Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:22 pm
Revelation = nothing more than voices in your head telling you to eat a ham sandwich. I'm hungry, craving a sandwich. What should I eat? A ham sandwich? That's a good idea.... I love ham sandwiches.
Personal revelation = The voices in your head.
Personal revelation in the temple = the voices in your head while you're in the temple.
Prophetic revelation = The voices in the prophets head.
Prophetic revelation in conference = the voices in the prophets head that he verbalized during conference.
It's all a bunch of Hokus Pokus!
Mic drop.... I'm out!
After many years of trying to get revelation and doing stupid things because I thought I did, I must agree