Priesthood Blessings Examined on New RFM Podcast

[consiglieri]

A new Radio Free Mormon podcast is up examining priesthood blessings.

It basically shows how the LDS Church claims to have the power to perform healings through priesthood blessings, but when it comes to examples of actual healing, the pantry is bare.

http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/ ... ot-healed/

I think it is worth a listen.

But then I am biased.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Nicely covered. I will always offer to any leaders of mine the opportunity to heal my quadriplegic relative if they have enough confidence.

[Sheamus Moore]

Another adroit podcast - nicely done! I'll be sharing this. (And thanks, Abracadabra-Dave, for redefining the tax code on priesthood healing).

[Hagoth]

Excellent as always, my friend! The white hot flame of logic cuts through the fog.

If Mormonism has succeeded in sufficiently humbling either the the person receiving the blessing or the person giving they will dutifully blame themselves for the failure of the blessing. If not, they will blame the other person. Either option does the job. If they're just too confused to know how to blame it's ok to blame God, because that means they truly understand the nature of miracles. Sounds about right.

Elder Bednar is a genius. Having thoroughly backed himself into a corner as an apostle who can't actually perform apostolic feats he has discovered the only possible option to explain his shortcoming, convince people that the faith to not be healed is better than being healed. Wow.

Do you think Elder Bednar is actually able to convince himself of this line of thinking? Is the true apostolic power the ability to pull the wool over your own eyes so as not to diminish your belief in your greatness?

[consiglieri]

I have a sneaking suspicion Elder Bednar is not as smart as he thinks he is.

His wife is onto him, though . . .

[w2mz]

Nicely covered. I will always offer to any leaders of mine the opportunity to heal my quadriplegic relative if they have enough confidence.

I've said this before, but if any of the 15 big shots could heal my disabled daughter, I'd wait with her on the steps of the CoB, day/night, rain/shine, for as long as it took for her turn to touch the hem of their Mr Mac suits.

[moksha]

It sort of makes sense for them to build a rampart of justifications for not performing miracles if they cannot do so. You want the crowd to keep showing their devotion, but not at the expense of tripping up the objects of devotion when they are unable to follow through with any claims.

"Kids, just buy the Superman costume but have the faith not to expect to fly." "Pay your tithing dollars, but have the wisdom not expect any bennies from Heaven" - wait, that last part is unnecessary since no one can prove it is an empty promise. No need to cover our butts on that one!

[Hagoth]

I served my mission in an area of the South that was highly religiously charged. Hardly a week went by that didn't meet someone who had a healing story better than any of our anecdotes, and many of them personal or first hand. We were left with three options: 1) other churches have at least as much healing priesthood as we do, 2) healings are a combination of placebo, misinterpretation and confirmation bias, or 3) these people were being healed by Satan to lead people away from our true message.

Any guesses about which one we went for?

[consiglieri]

Other churches may have healings that are performed by Satan, but we have no healings that are performed by God!

[Hagoth]

Hey, I just realized something.

When it comes to healings the church has found a convenient way to BOTH blame the victim AND shoot the messenger.

[1smartdodog]

Is there really any difference than the old time faith healers that would travel around and claim to heal at revivals?

If you can not do something you claim to be able to do is that not fraud?

I wish they really did have the power to heal. Think of the value of that.

[redjay]

They're gazebos, they're bullsh1t.

[MalcolmVillager]

Loves it Consiglieri! Keep up the great work. You put out some high quality stuff!

[Korihor]

Nicely covered. I will always offer to any leaders of mine the opportunity to heal my quadriplegic relative if they have enough confidence.

I've said this before, but if any of the 15 big shots could heal my disabled daughter, I'd wait with her on the steps of the CoB, day/night, rain/shine, for as long as it took for her turn to touch the hem of their Mr Mac suits.

Wow. No words.

[Rob4Hope]

You need to do a followup with Patriarchal Blessings....

Would be fascinating.

Also...what about the 2nd coming and fear mongering?...as well as the prepper groups?

How about something on visions and such that are pseudo-revelation, but have influence anyway?

My mind gets going when I think about this stuff...

[dispirited]

My wife and I were sitting in Sacrement meeting as a healing story was being re-told. I leaned over and whispered that if all the blessings that have been given in Holiday Utah with all our faith, our hospitals such as IMC and St. Marks should be reporting above average stats on recovering from heart disease and cancer, but guess what, we are the same as all the other hospitals around the country. BLESSINGS DONT WORK!

[Rob4Hope]

I know of an incident where a VERY devoted SP was asked to give a healing blessing. His approach was really interesting. He told the couple that he would, using the PH, rebuke the illness and command healing--but that if it didn't happen, it wasn't God's will.

He pre-qualified the whole thing BEFORE THE BLESSING!

I could tell from his approach that he himself had wrestled with this very problem. I find it interesting that this "nuanced" [?] way of approaching this blessing problem was used. Seemed like a cop-out to me.

Also, one other thing: years ago when my mother (now deceased) was growing up in SLC (right in the heartland of where some of the GAs came from I might add), there was a kindof policy in her family: visiting the doctor after a blessing was considered showing weakness in faith; you need to trust in the blessing for the healing necessary. Along this line, years later I remember hearing someone...I think it was Oaks but might be wrong...say that we should always attend the doctor as well as the blessing because visiting the doctor was a way to exercise faith.

These about-turns give me whiplash!

[Emower]

Did everyone miss the part of the talk where the guy in bednars story had a miraculous recovery after the blessing? I am a little disappointed that this was not mentioned consig. Yes the cancer came back, but we all die do we not?

[FiveFingerMnemonic]

Also, one other thing: years ago when my mother (now deceased) was growing up in SLC (right in the heartland of where some of the GAs came from I might add), there was a kindof policy in her family: visiting the doctor after a blessing was considered showing weakness in faith; you need to trust in the blessing for the healing necessary. Along this line, years later I remember hearing someone...I think it was Oaks but might be wrong...say that we should always attend the doctor as well as the blessing because visiting the doctor was a way to exercise faith.

These about-turns give me whiplash!

This reminds of the concept of "inshallah" in Islam. It's why Muslim countries don't do insurance. It would be mocking Allah.

[BriansThoughtMirror]

I served my mission in an area of the South that was highly religiously charged. Hardly a week went by that didn't meet someone who had a healing story better than any of our anecdotes, and many of them personal or first hand. We were left with three options: 1) other churches have at least as much healing priesthood as we do, 2) healings are a combination of placebo, misinterpretation and confirmation bias, or 3) these people were being healed by Satan to lead people away from our true message.

I had very similar experiences. I was in the midwest (MO, IL). Specifically, I remember meeting someone who had been Mormon, and whose son was chronically ill. Numerous priesthood blessings had failed to heal him. Finally, in desparation, they took him to some other church where they practiced the gifts of the spirit, and they healed him. At least, that's how I remember it.

I've seen far more failed blessings of healing than fulfilled ones. My dad was repeatedly blessed to be healed of cancer, but he died. My little brother was repeatedly blessed to be healed of chronic illness, but he's still pretty ill (though, miraculously, he's fairly functional, so maybe that is a fulfillment of some sort). My PB said I'd have the gift of healing. I blessed a woman with brain cancer on my mission to be healed. She died. Oh, I also blessed my dad to be healed after a day of fasting and prayer. I mentioned he died. Even little ones failed, like healing my mom's injured shoulder. After surgery, she's kinda functional, but not really the same. Blame me, if you like, for a lack of faith. I don't think I could have mustered any more. Of course, the fuzzier blessings of comfort or guidance are fulfilled all the time.