NOM

The latest episode of Infants on Thrones is John Hamer's Sunstone presentation about the Strangite Voree plates. The Strangites are my favorite Mormon splinter group and I'm surprised that mainstream Mormons seem to know nothing about them, considering that after Joseph's death James Strange attracted a following that rivaled Brigham's, including Joseph Smith's own family.

I have never given that much thought to the Voree plates except to note that they had much more believable and consistent witness accounts than did the gold plates, but Hamer illustrates how they one-up the gold plates in yet another way. It turns out that the language written on them actually makes sense and is decipherable, unlike the Athon Manuscript writing which appears to be random gibberish. Well worth listening to if you like that kind of thing.

Yes, I have listened to Hamer's interview on radio west several years ago and loved it. I also personally know some former members of the strangite group in my neighborhood. I have even brought them up in Sunday school and got looks like I had three eyes. They had all the same bonafide scripture producing ability that joseph had and thus even elite witnesses of early mormonism followed them. Their scripture has hebraism's like the BOM including chiasmus. They owned beaver island in Michigan. Fantasticly interesting group still in Voree Wisconsin. Their website brags about all the early famous mormons who followed them after Joseph's death. It's quite entertaining to read.

Link to the radio west episode:
http://www.tinyurl.com/kdha4w6

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:15 pm The Strangites are my favorite Mormon splinter group and I'm surprised that mainstream Mormons seem to know nothing about them, considering that after Joseph's death James Strange attracted a following that rivaled Brigham's, including Joseph Smith's own family.

Most folks on this board are "Desert Mormons" or "Rocky Mountain Mormons" and probably not as familiar with the "Great Lakes Mormons" which are a bit more well known in my stomping grounds. They're a pretty small group comparatively today though. They're common enough around here that when I mention having once been a Mormon I occasionally get asked if I was "Utah based" or "Michigan based."

I'm only a "fan" of the Strangites in that they are a useful rhetorical argument when talking to LDS believers who earnestly relate the lame, and unsubstantiated story of Brigham Young's transfiguration after Joseph's death/martyrdom/lynching/final shootout. Knowing that all of Joseph's immediate family and all of the Book of Mormon Witnesses except Oliver Cowdery went initially with Strang warms my apostate heart.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:04 am Yes, I have listened to Hamer's interview on radio west several years ago and loved it.

I think you would get a kick out of the IOT presentation. Hamer walks through the translation of the Voree plates. Strang actually created a consistent Nephite writing system.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:01 pm Strang actually created a consistent Nephite writing system.

Was it as sophisticated as the Elvish languages created by Tolkien?

BTW, what do you know about Hobbits? Would you like to learn more? Could my companion and I schedule a time at your convenience where we could present to you the truths found in the Red Book of Westmarch?

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:08 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:01 pm Strang actually created a consistent Nephite writing system.

Was it as sophisticated as the Elvish languages created by Tolkien?

BTW, what do you know about Hobbits? Would you like to learn more? Could my companion and I schedule a time at your convenience where we could present to you the truths found in the Red Book of Westmarch?

Mow THAT'S a missionary I would welcome to into my house.

I love me some Strang... I also like to bring up the Strang group because of the similarities to things that TBMs hold dear, specifically Witnesses and revelations. And when you add that Martin Fricking Harris was one of the Witnesses, it gets very quiet.

Another reason I love Strang is that eventually he just had to go for more wives. It must be wired into all hetero males, deep down in the wiring, that if you ever become a leader of a religious sect you need to seriously consider how much action you can get right in front of your followers. It must push some Neanderthal breeding button that we've long since learned to control, but somehow grows in power when we become "1st Elder".

Glad to see NOM is still thriving.

Yobispo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:39 am Another reason I love Strang is that eventually he just had to go for more wives. It must be wired into all hetero males, deep down in the wiring, that if you ever become a leader of a religious sect you need to seriously consider how much action you can get right in front of your followers. It must push some Neanderthal breeding button that we've long since learned to control, but somehow grows in power when we become "1st Elder".

I have to wonder if it's the same set of circumstances. Did Strang implement polygamy in an organized fashion or did he need it as a cover because he had his own Fanny Alger? There are a lot more historical documents which shed light on Smith's case, I think, than on Strang's, but I'm too lazy to google it. Which is sad, I know.

Yobispo wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:39 am Glad to see NOM is still thriving.

Glad to see Yobispo is still thriving!!

Mad Jax wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:25 pm I have to wonder if it's the same set of circumstances. Did Strang implement polygamy in an organized fashion or did he need it as a cover because he had his own Fanny Alger? There are a lot more historical documents which shed light on Smith's case, I think, than on Strang's, but I'm too lazy to google it. Which is sad, I know.

I'm not sure of the answer to this but it is fascinating in that many people followed Strang in part because he was the non-polygamist option, so it came as quite a surprise.

An additional fascinating detail is that Strang had a young wife who he dressed like a boy and took with him when he travelled, apparently believing that his followers couldn't tell she was really a girl. ( I dunno, maybe they couldn't).

It was a huge shock for me to realize that so many of Joseph's family joined, that he produced translations, that there were witness statements and that one of the witnesses was a witness to our plates! I'm not a fan other than it makes a great conversation killer.

Emower wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:56 am It was a huge shock for me to realize that so many of Joseph's family joined, that he produced translations, that there were witness statements and that one of the witnesses was a witness to our plates! I'm not a fan other than it makes a great conversation killer.

To clarify a bit, Martin Harris was not a witness to the voree plates but he was a follower who served a mission to England for the strangites (he only lasted a year with the strangites) before following David Whitmer afterwards and coming back to the Utah fold at the end of his life.

Emower wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:56 am It was a huge shock for me to realize that so many of Joseph's family joined, that he produced translations, that there were witness statements and that one of the witnesses was a witness to our plates! I'm not a fan other than it makes a great conversation killer.

I actually wonder if there was a divide between the prophet's family and many members which encouraged them to choose Young. I remember having many people prefer my company because I had a different story than most members, and many who preferred to hang around with BIC members. Which was their prerogative, and not something which bothered me, but it was something I observed (this was mostly during my student/single ward era). And this seemed to correlate with which classes they chose to attend (I don't mean to imply this all revolved around me, just that these crowds were different and I was a member of one of them and that there was some consistency of association). So I wouldn't be surprised if there was a circle of folks that mostly gravitated around the Smith relatives and those who preferred not to do so, and that this contributed to their choice to follow Young.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:27 am

Emower wrote: ↑Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:56 am It was a huge shock for me to realize that so many of Joseph's family joined, that he produced translations, that there were witness statements and that one of the witnesses was a witness to our plates! I'm not a fan other than it makes a great conversation killer.

To clarify a bit, Martin Harris was not a witness to the voree plates but he was a follower who served a mission to England for the strangites (he only lasted a year with the strangites) before following David Whitmer afterwards and coming back to the Utah fold at the end of his life.

I thought I had read that Harris witnessed the plates. Guess not, whew!

This shows some of the concerted efforts that go into a made up language:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa6cHEJIjYI

I suppose we will never see various Nephite/Reformed Egyptian accents in future movies, but we can look for differing pronunciations of Jacobean English in our Sunday prayers. "We beseechest thou to refraineth from dumping any more moisture upon thine Florida till things dryeth out in a fortnight."

The more religious leaders that produce witnesses and plates and the different trapping the less credible they all become in my mind. What kind of crazy god expects you to sift through all the baloney to figure out which one is correct.

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:08 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:01 pm Strang actually created a consistent Nephite writing system.

Was it as sophisticated as the Elvish languages created by Tolkien?

BTW, what do you know about Hobbits? Would you like to learn more? Could my companion and I schedule a time at your convenience where we could present to you the truths found in the Red Book of Westmarch?

Did someone call for a hobbit?