NOM

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:22 pm**

The Houston Temple President asks the members to pray to stop the flood.

Soooo, Was Jesus preoccupied and didn't realize there was a giant hurricane bearing down on Houston and didn't know his house was going to flood?

Did they not pray hard/loud enough to deliver the message?

Can God part the Red Sea but not stop 3' of flood waters around his house?

Why can't God step in and help out when it matters most?

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:07 pm**

Where are you getting the info that the temple has actually taken on water?

"My" Google says that there is flooding all around, and even ancillary temple buildings flooded, but temple is still dry...

P.S. STAY IN THE BOAT!

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:26 pm**

I felt sick and sad that they didn't ask for prayers for all the PEOPLE affected by the floods. But, sure, whatever, let's pray for the mega million dollar temple...that's what Jesus would want.

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:28 pm**

That guy got out of the boat. Shame on him.

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:51 pm**

Emower wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:28 pm That guy got out of the boat. Shame on him.

LOL!
Is it really true that mormons were asked to pray for the fancy, expensive building for "Jesus" instead of people in trailer homes who are probably not insured against a flood?? If so, how do members NOT get that LDS Inc has completely lost any resemblance to a Christ centered church??

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:55 pm**

StarbucksMom wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:51 pm
Emower wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:28 pm That guy got out of the boat. Shame on him.
LOL!
Is it really true that mormons were asked to pray for the fancy, expensive building for "Jesus" instead of people in trailer homes who are probably not insured against a flood?? If so, how do members NOT get that LDS Inc has completely lost any resemblance to a Christ centered church??

Or the old folks home with elderly people up to their chests in water??

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:30 pm**

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:07 pm Where are you getting the info that the temple has actually taken on water?

"My" Google says that there is flooding all around, and even ancillary temple buildings flooded, but temple is still dry...

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... oding.html

That's where the pic is from (article is now updated)... saw it on ex-mo reddit and had to find a "legit" source before showing my wife. Unless the doors are hermetically sealed, that $17,000 rug is wet.

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:36 pm**

Hopefully they learned the same lesson as the builders of the Tower of Babel and used tar for mortar.

According to LDSLiving, God protects his temples from natural disasters:

http://www.ldsliving.com/Miraculous-Sto ... rs/s/81658
God saved the Baton Rouge temple from hurricane Katrina. I guess they were more righteous. It's interesting that they tell the story of how God miraculously saved the Samoa temple from a storm, but then somehow overlook the fact that He allow it to burn to the ground.

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:37 pm**

As of 6pm in Utah, LDS-Inc. was still reporting that the temple was "safe".

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=45591453&nid=1 ... emple-safe

(Plenty of comments mentioning the social media photos that show otherwise.)

Fake news, LDS-Inc. style. It started on day 1, and continues until today...

Edit: And sadly, this just give LDS-Inc. an opportunity to bilk believers of more of their money. I remember the event with the Samoan temple that TapirChief mentioned, and now the church "encouraged" folks to donate extra $$$ to rebuild that temple.

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 pm**

The deseret news is finally reporting that the flood waters have breached the temple, see http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... safe.html

From the deseret news article - Temple President Marshall Hayes confirmed Monday night that the temple was flooding. "The creek became a river and the current is so strong that it’s been dangerous to even try and approach the temple," he said. Nearby Cyprus Creek rose by more than 20 feet. “It appears water to the depth of four or five inches has gone inside the temple," he added. “That includes a baptistry, a marriage waiting room, dressing rooms, kitchen and laundry. We haven’t been able to go inside so we really don’t know the extent of the damage.”

the desert news link has another wide angle photo from a different angle

Posted: **Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:04 pm**

I'm surprised the church didn't have members out sandbagging the temple while their own homes flooded.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:23 am**

Devil Waters Attack Mormons in Houston

Deseret News
By Tad Walch Aug. 28, 2017

SALT LAKE CITY — Over the weekend and on into Monday, Harvey's floodwaters displaced hundreds of Mormons, breached the faith's Texas Houston Temple, damaged meetinghouses, canceled Sunday worship services.

"Elder Daniel Jones of the Seventy and President Marshall Hayes of the Houston Texas Temple have asked us to petition our Father in Heaven to stay the elements of this catastrophic storm so that residents of this great area may be spared the losses and devastation that are upon so many," Houston Texas North Stake President David Bertoch said in a message to nine congregations.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:17 am**

el-asherah wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:50 pm The deseret news is finally reporting that the flood waters have breached the temple, see http://www.deseretnews.com/article/8656 ... safe.html

From the deseret news article - Temple President Marshall Hayes confirmed Monday night that the temple was flooding. "The creek became a river and the current is so strong that it’s been dangerous to even try and approach the temple," he said. Nearby Cyprus Creek rose by more than 20 feet. “It appears water to the depth of four or five inches has gone inside the temple," he added. “That includes a baptistry, a marriage waiting room, dressing rooms, kitchen and laundry. We haven’t been able to go inside so we really don’t know the extent of the damage.”

the desert news link has another wide angle photo from a different angle

Yeah, they finally admitted that the Masonic Plagiarism Temple building located in Houston had flooded. HOURS after photographic evidence showed the flooding, and HOURS after they continued to claim that it wasn't flooded. Why?

Supposedly those original photos were taken by a relative of one of the councilors in the temple presidency, so there was really no reason to doubt them...

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:50 pm**

There's been quite of bit of criticism on Reddit ExMo regarding the church and the disaster. Facebook Mormon Stories Podcast Community and other "open minded mormon" groups have all joined in the express displeasure, condemnation, and criticism of the Church in this. Everything from not opening meetinghouses as shelters praying for the temple instead of people.

I get it, everyone is mad at the church and now is their chance to point fingers. C'est la vie.

"Hours" after twitter showed pics of the flooded temple did the church finally admit reality.

Honestly, I'm not criticizing the church on its disaster relief and humanitarian aid efforts on this one.

Meeting houses are not staffed facilities. It is a little unrealistic to expect the church to roll out the welcome mat as a shelter when it's run by people with their own lives to live. This is an ongoing crisis, the storm is only going to get worse. A pastor goes to work every day at his church building. A bishop and stake president do not. This is something best left to professionals. It's one thing to open your doors, it's another to have food, water, basic medical, coordination with emergency responders, etc. I just can't fault the church on this one.

Regarding the temple flooding in, LDS Living is a stupid organization that said "the temple was spared" extremely prematurely. The church itself was keeping quiet until it had verifiable information. Again, this is an ongoing crisis. The media are in a mad scramble to "be the first" for any piece of news and often preliminary reports are incomplete, incorrect overstated. I can't fault the church for taking a few hours to issue a statement regarding the temple flooding. Hell, my lunches are that long sometimes. I'm sure things are busy in the COB right now.

Regarding "prayers" for the temple. OK, yes in our eyes it can be a bit silly to pray to save a building, but the Faithful LDS community, it's a big deal. they lost their house of worship. Even if we see it differently, it is a big deal to them. People were married there, people have lots of memories there. Mocking the faithful for "prayers to save the temple" is unkind. Now, if we want to discuss the effectiveness of prayers, that's another matter. But criticism of this is simply kicking them when they were down. They are human doing the best they can.

To the best of my knowledge, the church has loaded semi trucks full of supplies and are en route to Houston. Good for them. Who cares if the yellow t-shirts aren't out yet. That's not their job. Some random people from a church group should not be expected to be first responders. If they wear yellow shirts as a PR move, fine. Who doesn't like a little atta-boy? Yes, the church will toot it's horn about how much it did with those yellow shirts. Let them. It doesn't hurt anyone.

I'm not donating money to the LDS church with the intent it goes for disaster relief. That being said, they are human beings trying to help as best they know how. No one expects Salt Lake City to save Houston from a flood.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:55 pm**

Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:50 pmNot gonna quote the whole thing: Scroll up...

Interesting... So has your opinion / attitude on this scenario changed since you created this thread?

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:37 pm**

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:55 pm
Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:50 pmNot gonna quote the whole thing: Scroll up...
Interesting... So has your opinion / attitude on this scenario changed since you created this thread?

I think it has changed slightly, but not 180.

For the record, my long post 2 spots up was not against you, WTFluff. Mostly it was from seeing stuff on Reddit ExMo, that place is an echo chamber and they can't entertain the idea of someone supporting anything LDS.

Critique against God for allowing his house to flood and inefficacy of prayers is open season. That hasn't changed and my original post with the snide questions was intended to steer the topic toward the ridiculousness of the concept of prayer creating meaningful change.

That is not the same as critiquing the people or institution for how it responds. The church appears to be open the meeting house doors. The local people are doing what they can and the information is flowing as quickly as reasonable. Of course, there might be a few minor faux pass. I see too many arm-chair FEMA Directors on twitter, not just limited to our corner of the internet. Criticism of the first lady for wearing stiletto's and a FLOTUS hat is silly. What does it matter what shoes she has, it's not like she's gonna drive an airboat no matter what her dress.

Initially, my thought process went towards cricticism of the church. However, it is becoming apparent to me that everyone is doing the best they can within reason and I wouldn't want the peanut gallery tossing barbs while I was doing something to help. I'm not calling anyone out, but maybe voicing these thoughts to help temper my own opinion.

-I know I'm a bit fuzzy on the prayer thing and appear to have contractory views now that I re-read it. I think what I mean is that it's silly to pray to miraculously save something. At the same time, we shouldn't deride those offering a prayer. It's important to them and we should still be decent human beings to each. This is tricky one for me. Mrs Misbehaved and I have been discussing how to revamp our views/usage of prayer in our family. We still stay grace at dinner in a basic LDS form. We want to modify it but not abandon it.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:53 pm**

Culper Jr. wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:30 pm Unless the doors are hermetically sealed, that $17,000 rug is wet.

Tight like unto a dish.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:03 pm**

Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:37 pm I think it has changed slightly, but not 180.

For the record, my long post 2 spots up was not against you, WTFluff.

Meh, my Fluff was only slightly ruffled.

I do have issue with the church preaching that the temple was "spared" when there was evidence to the contrary available.

As far as the rest of it, I dunno, I guess I'm a bit conflicted.

The church can and does do a lot of good in situations like this, and I did see a photo yesterday of a group in "helping hands" vests, so they've already begun to organize. If they're able to get organized enough to make sure their volunteers can be identified with vests, why can't they get organized enough to offer up some of their real-estate holdings as shelters? I'd guess that the Red Cross has a bit of an idea how to do it, and could get a chapel up and running as a shelter just as quickly as they could a school building, with the help of a few helping hands yellow vest people of course.

I have no idea what the logistics would be for that sort of thing so maybe I'm just an angry apostate, complaining out of my Fluff...

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:11 pm**

wtfluff wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:03 pm The church can and does do a lot of good in situations like this, and I did see a photo yesterday of a group in "helping hands" vests, so they've already begun to organize.

Instead of The Church, can we say that The Local Members can and do a lot of good in situations like this. I don't think the COB deserves much credit, other than the correlated teachings on service.

Do you think that Mormons think they have a more prominent corner on the service market than other communities in situations like these? Maybe they think they do it better and more organized than other faiths or groups? With the one true church claim, the we are more super special and chosen than non-mormons, it seems to me there's a bit of a pious position on the service rendered during natural disasters. I'll bet money the church news uses it to spotlight all the acts of services the members are performing during the cleanup and there will be conference talks.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:44 pm**

Korihor wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:50 pmTo the best of my knowledge, the church has loaded semi trucks full of supplies and are en route to Houston. Good for them. Who cares if the yellow t-shirts aren't out yet. That's not their job. Some random people from a church group should not be expected to be first responders. If they wear yellow shirts as a PR move, fine. Who doesn't like a little atta-boy? Yes, the church will toot it's horn about how much it did with those yellow shirts. Let them. It doesn't hurt anyone.

I'm with you on this. I've sometimes felt as if I were the only less-than-orthodox person on the Internet who doesn't mind the yellow shirts in the least. (In fact, I think they are a smart idea for reasons other than advertising.)

I live in an area where on multiple occasions I've seen and taken part in the impressive effort that LDS members put forward in situations like this. Of course they aren't the only ones out helping, but they are well-organized and well-supplied and they do a lot of good.

I've also seen an LDS chapel turned into temporary housing for non-members in the community, with only a brief Sunday meeting before a full day of work.

There are things about my faith tradition that I find it easy to be critical of these days, but I can only say positive things about the disaster recovery efforts.

NOM

Houston Temple Floods

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