NOM

Today I bring ye fellow NOMs a hot topic : what the GAs are doing.

Our single's ward got a visit from this guy.
He started out by expressing his sincere caring for us, and I thought we were going to get some hot issues discussion, seeing as he works for the Church History Department, but no, he instead basically gave us life advice, which was mostly good.

3 problems I had with what he brought up :
- SIN means that you are making yourself miserable, and the only way to be happy (ad it always always works) is righteousness.
- Bad story about encouraging Haitian members (who eat one meal a day anyway) to give as much as they can given their circumstances in fast offerings. WHY THE HELL ARE THE POOREST MEMBERS IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE PAYING MONEY TO SALT LAKE TO HELP POOR PEOPLE?!? AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO THINKS THAT IS COMPLETELY BACKWARDS? /rant
- "The biggest thing I have learned is how TRUE the Church is. It is so much TRUER than the members believe."

He came across as a really nice man, and was totally genuine.



Gossip that we got from him (admit it, this is what you all really want to hear):

- TSM is very frail physically, and has dementia/Alzheimer's now. ("His body is failing. His memory is fading.") May or may not reach 90. GA described it as the Lord "squeezing every last drop" out of the prophet.
- Packer calls Monson the "most Christlike of all of us"
- Eyring is somehow even more of a special witness of Christ than the other GAs
- Not really gossip but he wore a clip-on mic instead of preaching from the pulpit

ulmite wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:27 pm 3 problems I had with what he brought up :
- SIN means that you are making yourself miserable, and the only way to be happy (ad it always always works) is righteousness.
- Bad story about encouraging Haitian members (who eat one meal a day anyway) to give as much as they can given their circumstances in fast offerings. WHY THE HELL ARE THE POOREST MEMBERS IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE PAYING MONEY TO SALT LAKE TO HELP POOR PEOPLE?!? AM I THE ONLY PERSON WHO THINKS THAT IS COMPLETELY BACKWARDS? /rant
- "The biggest thing I have learned is how TRUE the Church is. It is so much TRUER than the members believe."

He came across as a really nice man, and was totally genuine.
Gossip that we got from him (admit it, this is what you all really want to hear):

- TSM is very frail physically, and has dementia/Alzheimer's now. ("His body is failing. His memory is fading.") May or may not reach 90. GA described it as the Lord "squeezing every last drop" out of the prophet.
- Packer calls Monson the "most Christlike of all of us"
- Eyring is somehow even more of a special witness of Christ than the other GAs
- Not really gossip but he wore a clip-on mic instead of preaching from the pulpit

I thought they had stopped dropping vague hints that so and so apostle has seen Jesus. Maybe the success of Denver Snuffer has changed that a little. Of course for many who believe as Snuffer do, the thought that only one of all the GA's might have seen Jesus would be pretty disheartening.

I would pay money to know what he meant by this, "The biggest thing I have learned is how TRUE the Church is. It is so much TRUER than the members believe." What would this mean exactly? Did he used to believe that the church was capable of making mistakes, but now he knows that's not possible? Did he used to believe that the church was limited to a small portion of a person's spiritual life, but now he understands that it has dominion over 100%?

The sin quotation, I could be on board with as long as "sin" as defined as doing things that make us miserable. For example, for a long time I sinned by continuing to attend church long after it was healthy to do so. Every time I stepped in that chapel I sinned against myself, my family, and anyone else suffering under that system. Stepping away from that particular sin, and it was an indulgent one because the church makes you feel important, was a huge blessing in my life. Drug and alcohol abuse are examples of sin that leads to a living hell. Dishonesty, stealing, cheating, and all other ways that one person might abuse another also leads to misery. Stopping those things and working on being a decent human being are certainly bound to make you more happy. But if sin is defined as disobeying the church, then forget it.

oliver_denom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:38 am I would pay money to know what he meant by this, "The biggest thing I have learned is how TRUE the Church is. It is so much TRUER than the members believe." What would this mean exactly? Did he used to believe that the church was capable of making mistakes, but now he knows that's not possible? Did he used to believe that the church was limited to a small portion of a person's spiritual life, but now he understands that it has dominion over 100%?

I'd bet money that if someone actually asked him to explain what he meant by this, he'd pull the "It's to sacred to discuss" card.

To me, it's a statement that defies logic. How does truth become even more TRUTHY? Oh, yeah: By performing mental gymnastics, and basically making s**t up...


And I have to agree with your sentiments about this statement Oliver:

ulmite wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:27 pm- SIN means that you are making yourself miserable, and the only way to be happy (ad it always always works) is righteousness.

I spent YEARS committing the SIN of attending the Corporation's meetings, and making myself miserable because of it. I'd say attendance made me miserable more than 90% of the time, but I just kept making myself miserable, because "that's what we do". So glad I don't have to endure that misery any more.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:24 am

oliver_denom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:38 am I would pay money to know what he meant by this, "The biggest thing I have learned is how TRUE the Church is. It is so much TRUER than the members believe." What would this mean exactly? Did he used to believe that the church was capable of making mistakes, but now he knows that's not possible? Did he used to believe that the church was limited to a small portion of a person's spiritual life, but now he understands that it has dominion over 100%?

I'd bet money that if someone actually asked him to explain what he meant by this, he'd pull the "It's to sacred to discuss" card.

...

This was one of the first places I realized my thinking truly diverged from the leadership of the church. In some church meeting 10 years ago there was a statement from the GAs about how to correctly bear testimony. The directions were to simply bear testimony of the things you "know", like the restoration of the gospel and the book of mormon and the living prophet. They discouraged telling stories, e.g. specifics, and lumped all stories together with travelogs and thanktimonies. TBM me thought that was stupid and that they couldn't mean that, they must mean that you should keep your stories focused on the testimony, and I went on. But the comment stayed with me.

Now I understand that the devil is in the details, and if you dig very far into the genesis of a testimony it is pretty weak. So by not sharing any stories about it, your testimony stands stronger, with no details to dig into and analyze and destroy. It is a critical thinking killer. Booo.

ulmite wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:27 pm - TSM is very frail physically, and has dementia/Alzheimer's now. ("His body is failing. His memory is fading.") May or may not reach 90. GA described it as the Lord "squeezing every last drop" out of the prophet.

What in the hell is God squeezing out of TSM?

This seems like a cruel God to me. TSM served God his whole life, as far as I know, with his whole might mind and strength. He led many, influenced many, and was dedicated.

So, how does God reward him? By inflicting some of the worst neurological infirmities possible on him as a frail old human, and confining him to his home for the last few moments of his life.

I'd think a respectful God would thank him by releasing him from mortality quick and painless, with all dignity intact.

Jmho

w2mz wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:21 pm

ulmite wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:27 pm - TSM is very frail physically, and has dementia/Alzheimer's now. ("His body is failing. His memory is fading.") May or may not reach 90. GA described it as the Lord "squeezing every last drop" out of the prophet.

What in the hell is God squeezing out of TSM?

Excellent question. In his current state he isn't doing much good for anybody. What a weird thing to say.

w2mz wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:21 pm

ulmite wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:27 pm - TSM is very frail physically, and has dementia/Alzheimer's now. ("His body is failing. His memory is fading.") May or may not reach 90. GA described it as the Lord "squeezing every last drop" out of the prophet.

What in the hell is God squeezing out of TSM?

This seems like a cruel God to me. TSM served God his whole life, as far as I know, with his whole might mind and strength. He led many, influenced many, and was dedicated.

So, how does God reward him? By inflicting some of the worst neurological infirmities possible on him as a frail old human, and confining him to his home for the last few moments of his life.

I'd think a respectful God would thank him by releasing him from mortality quick and painless, with all dignity intact.

Jmho

It is a very odd way of expressing the "Golden Years." Makes President Monson sound like a tube of toothpaste.

deacon blues wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:40 am It is a very odd way of expressing the "Golden Years." Makes President Monson sound like a tube of toothpaste.

rofl
I suppose I shouldn't laugh, but this analogy cracked me up.

I'm glad they are finally admitting he has dementia, though. Poor guy.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:25 am

w2mz wrote: ↑Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:21 pm

ulmite wrote: ↑Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:27 pm - TSM is very frail physically, and has dementia/Alzheimer's now. ("His body is failing. His memory is fading.") May or may not reach 90. GA described it as the Lord "squeezing every last drop" out of the prophet.

What in the hell is God squeezing out of TSM?

Excellent question. In his current state he isn't doing much good for anybody. What a weird thing to say.

I think its the perfect example for what the church does to everyone, even the most successful. It takes and takes and takes until you aren't useful anymore. If he were just Brother Monson in Podunk First Ward, then he'd be sidelined and largely ignored. But since he's risen to apostle, he gets the privilege of being used as a figurehead in order to shore up everyone else's authority. This is the promise the church makes, that it will use you until there's nothing left, and when there's nothing left, there's no use for you. The only difference between us and Monson is that he's still useful as a symbol. Most aren't that privileged.

My mind goes back over 20 years to my mission where I got to serve with this great senior couple from Idaho. They were farmers their whole lives and when asked to go on a mission, they went. After a lifetime growing food and being outdoors, they were put in an office and expected to figure out how computers work and file papers. This was back in '96 when you could still get away with not having one. They were lorded over by my mission president who was a career insurance man who expected his office staff to operate like what he was accustomed to. He berated and lectured this couple daily, and they took it. They gave up time with grandchildren and family. They struggled through misery, after a lifetime serving in the church, giving up some of the last precious years of their life, just to let this jack ass abuse them for not knowing how spreadsheets work. The church wanted their time, talents, money, and self respect. It got all four.

That's where a lifetime of service in the LDS church takes you, indignity and servitude, 99.999% of the time. The .001% get sweet GA gigs and get to retire from church and enjoy the fruits of having been in the upper echelons of the church. Everyone else is used up and thrown out.

oliver_denom wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:26 am That's where a lifetime of service in the LDS church takes you, indignity and servitude, 99.999% of the time. The .001% get sweet GA gigs and get to retire from church and enjoy the fruits of having been in the upper echelons of the church. Everyone else is used up and thrown out.

I agree with what you said in your post, Oliver denim, except this one last point. The last Q15 never get to retire. Sure there are a lot of great perks: housing, travel, insurance and top notch medical care, adoration and adulation, perhaps tuition benefits and nepotism for the family. (As I write this I see that's a lot. What was my point again?) Oh yes, they never get to retire. Every weekend spent at conferences and meetings. Even when visiting family you have to sit on the stand and preside. Get on that plane even if you have painful arthritis, or some other age related condition. Go to work every day until the day you die or are confined to bed. Maybe they enjoy all the prestige and fanfare. It sounds like hell to me. They will all get used up "in the service of the Lord." That's what they want. And so do many elder TBMs like your missionary friends. So sad.

Nonny wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:01 pm

oliver_denom wrote: ↑Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:26 am That's where a lifetime of service in the LDS church takes you, indignity and servitude, 99.999% of the time. The .001% get sweet GA gigs and get to retire from church and enjoy the fruits of having been in the upper echelons of the church. Everyone else is used up and thrown out.

I agree with what you said in your post, Oliver denim, except this one last point. The last Q15 never get to retire. Sure there are a lot of great perks: housing, travel, insurance and top notch medical care, adoration and adulation, perhaps tuition benefits and nepotism for the family. (As I write this I see that's a lot. What was my point again?) Oh yes, they never get to retire. Every weekend spent at conferences and meetings. Even when visiting family you have to sit on the stand and preside. Get on that plane even if you have painful arthritis, or some other age related condition. Go to work every day until the day you die or are confined to bed. Maybe they enjoy all the prestige and fanfare. It sounds like hell to me. They will all get used up "in the service of the Lord." That's what they want. And so do many elder TBMs like your missionary friends. So sad.

Boo hoo. They do it to themselves, accept the perks, adulation, and accolades, and are well compensated. They get no sympathy from me. And they keep the system running that exploits the members below them?

Oliver makes an outstanding point about the Church using you up. It will take and take and take and leave you nothing but empty promises about your blessings in the next life. It will steal your money, your financial security, your retirement, your time with family, the best years of your life, and leave you feeling like you should have given more. It cheats its members and leaves them feeling like crap about themselves. Don't feel sorry for the Brethren, like Oliver said, feel sorry for the poor suckers whose very lives are stolen by the insatiable organization that the Brethren lead and maintain.