NOM

These are always kind of fun to return and report.

The missionaries came over last night. It was fine. We ate some food and chatted a bit. Nothing particularly noteworthy.

Then they sat down for the "spiritual message" and I took the opportunity to do the dishes. Unfortunately, I could still hear. It was one of those pressure-your-friends sales sessions that we all love to hate. I don't believe there actually was a spiritual message.

First they asked if my wife had any friends she could refer (the answer is a firm no. She is in academia; she didn't say it outright to the missionaries, but all of her friends and colleagues are liberal academics with either no or very niche religious interests. They are barking up the wrong tree with her).

Then they asked if she could manipulate (not their word, but it is exactly what they were asking) some friends she mentioned who are interested in family history into meeting with the missionaries based on their statuses as "family history consultants." Like, people don't know what Mormon missionaries are all about? People aren't going to believe that they're going to get help with anything without being proselyted to, dudes. So naive.

Then they asked what kind of activities could maybe get more people to show up to ward activities.

(Quick aside here: I learned last night that the recent big annual EQ family activity with picnic, pool, guns/a shooting range had only four elders show up, and I understand that most didn't bring their families. Hahahahahahahahaha. I hope this trend continues.)

My wife (as we both have many times before) pointed out that having guns at these events is alienating for the [laughably small] segment of Mormons that don't like guns, and perhaps something more oriented around games or music would be better? The missionaries agreed and said they'll plan stuff like that.

(The problem here, of course, isn't the type of activity planned. They've had plenty of games and music activities. It's that Mormon activities are boring, prescribed, lifeless events, with people belonging to the most consistently conservative religious group in the country, often held in ugly, smelly church buildings, where you will be faced with usually silent judgment but sometimes sharp rebuke for any deviations from Mormon cultural norms, and you can't even have beer to help ease everyone up, even though the MF'ing Word of Wisdom says right there that beer is allowed; CAN THESE PEOPLE NOT EVEN READ???! ...Sorry, tangent/rant).

Anyway, then the missionaries asked if they could check in with my wife for referrals/invites on a weekly basis for the next two months until the ward potluck in September. I was proud of her for at least trying to establish some amount of boundaries, saying, "Look guys, my non-member friends know I'm Mormon and have made it clear they're not interested. I don't think it's appropriate to invites my colleagues or students to church activities, so it's really unlikely I'm going to have anyone to refer to you."

They answered, "Well, someone doesn't have to be your best friend to come out to a church event. You could invite new neighbors or whoever. And as you know, when you pray for missionary experiences, they come. So we'll check in with you every week to help you to remember to pray for missionary experiences. We'll just send you a text, and if you don't reply, we'll assume you had no update for referrals that week. Good?" What could she say from a faithful mindset? She tried to say no, but Mormons are notoriously bad at both establishing and respecting boundaries.

Meanwhile, I'm in the kitchen just rolling my eyes so hard that I'm becoming rather familiar with the contours of my brain. This kind of stuff was some of my least favorite from being a member, and hearing from my new perspective was just insufferable. Wow.

For the record, I didn't mention a word of my thoughts on any of this to my wife, and I don't plan to. Hopefully their weekly texts won't mess with her head too much. But if I say nothing, my guess is that she will put in token efforts to pray for missionary opportunities, will not talk to anyone about the church, won't send any referrals to the missionaries, and probably won't even be too keen to attend the ward potluck. Wish me luck.

P.S. Oh, and I think the missionaries were robots. The awkward questions, man. For example, we have some new bookshelves we're working on setting up and filling in. My wife was telling them we're excited to get all our books put up, and they ask, "Oh, is reading your favorite thing to do?" My wife was really thrown by that, "...Um, we really love to read. I don't know if it's our favorite thing?" So they try to pin her down: "Oh, so what is your favorite thing?"

It's like their programming doesn't allow for nuance, only absolutes. Hmm, that actually sounds really familiar.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:40 am(Quick aside here: I learned last night that the recent big annual EQ family activity with picnic, pool, guns/a shooting range had only four elders show up, and I understand that most didn't bring their families. Hahahahahahahahaha. I hope this trend continues.)

My wife (as we both have many times before) pointed out that having guns at these events is alienating for the [laughably small] segment of Mormons that don't like guns, and perhaps something more oriented around games or music would be better? The missionaries agreed and said they'll plan stuff like that.

While I have no issue with guns when handled properly, guns and family activities do not mix. Anything involving firearms is an adults and responsible teenager (with supervision) only activity. I wouldn't want to take my young kids to an activity involving firearms. Too much risk of something going VERY wrong. Heck, even if it was adults only, I won't go if I knew that someone stupid was going to be there. A shooting activity needs to be sperate from any activity with kids and very heavily managed to maintain safety. So I agree that that is not well planed.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:40 am (The problem here, of course, isn't the type of activity planned. They've had plenty of games and music activities. It's that Mormon activities are boring, prescribed, lifeless events, with people belonging to the most consistently conservative religious group in the country, often held in ugly, smelly church buildings, where you will be faced with usually silent judgment but sometimes sharp rebuke for any deviations from Mormon cultural norms, and you can't even have beer to help ease everyone up, even though the MF'ing Word of Wisdom says right there that beer is allowed; CAN THESE PEOPLE NOT EVEN READ???! ...Sorry, tangent/rant).

Mormons practice selective reading. Of course most Christians do as well, we just have more to pick and choose from. They read the verses that support their belief or they have been told to read. They don't read the ones that they are not. So they treat verses 6 and 17 as if they do not exist. Most don't even know they are there and most of those who do have never stopped to really think about what they say.

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:25 am

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:40 am(Quick aside here: I learned last night that the recent big annual EQ family activity with picnic, pool, guns/a shooting range had only four elders show up, and I understand that most didn't bring their families. Hahahahahahahahaha. I hope this trend continues.)

My wife (as we both have many times before) pointed out that having guns at these events is alienating for the [laughably small] segment of Mormons that don't like guns, and perhaps something more oriented around games or music would be better? The missionaries agreed and said they'll plan stuff like that.

While I have no issue with guns when handled properly, guns and family activities do not mix. Anything involving firearms is an adults and responsible teenager (with supervision) only activity. I wouldn't want to take my young kids to an activity involving firearms. Too much risk of something going VERY wrong. Heck, even if it was adults only, I won't go if I knew that someone stupid was going to be there. A shooting activity needs to be sperate from any activity with kids and very heavily managed to maintain safety. So I agree that that is not well planed.

To be fair to this EQ, the shooting range was about a mile away from the pool/barbecue area. So it's not like there were guns going off directly next to the kids. But you are completely right, of course: guns and kids do not mix.

We had a similar experience. The missionaries decided to stop by and share a spiritual moment so they pull out their iPads and play a 60 second mormon channel clip. When it was over they just sat there and paused for dramatic effect, staring intently with awkward eye contact while they let the heart sell marinate. After 2 minutes of silence they ask what friends come to mind that we could share that video with on Facebook with some fancy hashtag.

Their robotic nuance is extremely tangible and downright creepy. Honestly, it's not even normal personality quarks because I've seen it in different sets of elders and sisters. They all mimic this weird way of conversation while testifying to the truth of every sub topic that comes out of their mouth. How did you like that video? I know that he truths it contained are true! Our Heavenly Father has expressed truth through his prophets today. It's like the stepford wives are using too much of Professsor Plankton's mind control shampoo.

Haven't had the missionaries actually over, they avoid my house like the plague, the dreaded apostasy disease! But we had a missionary sacrament yesterday, and they talked about the fact that we haven't had hardly any baptisms for the last few years, and they called it a "famine," and so they introduced a new program to get God to lift the famine, like the Israelites of old.

I declined to participate. When they want to know WHY there's a famine in the first place, they can ask me.

I agree, I wouldn't knowingly attend an activity where firearms are part of the fun. Too much potential for things to go wrong. Now, I have been on camp outs where the men assigned as night watch had guns in case of bears, but I do believe there's a very large difference.

Here's a list of verses from the WofW Mormons read:

1-6 (they read the first part of, but not the whole of 5)
12-14
15-16 (I put these verses up here, because I think they could be taken out. These verses might have been a good spot to talk about sugar, but that's me)
17

Verses they do read

7 (haven't taken any wine baths, lately, but now I'm intrigued)
8 (second part is kind of irrelevant, now)
9-10
11 (but, not really. Utah would have a very healthy organic grocery chain headquartered here, if that were the case)
17 (when I was younger, we were taught the last part if this verse was Pero and Postum. Alas, I think these are going to end up under "hot drinks" because of the appearance of evil thing. Anyway, Pero and Postum weren't invented, yet, so this verse is talking about beer.)
18-21

10 out of 21 verses is less than half.

What isn't found in the Word Of Wisdom, but members think is: moderation in all things.

Some thoughts while writing this:

1) members obviously are cafeteria about this (appropo pun), although the culture dictates what is chosen and what is ignored.

2) I could be equally cafeteria, ignore the hot drinks and be near vegetarian (which I do) and be obeying the Word Of Wisdom every bit as much as my neighbors. I'm just applying science rather than prevailing culture as my lens.

3) The final verses contain blessings and warnings. If a person were to ignore the entire section to that point and accept the consequences laid out in the final verses for not obeying, they are also obeying the Word Of Wisdom.

A bit tangential, my post. The missionaries are always an interesting experience. I never paid much attention to the correlated part, I remember it was always impossible to get through the evening without someone being horribly, obtusely insulting. It was always interesting to see who it would be. One time, it was me.

We had the missionaries over for dinner the other week. I talked about basketball a lot, didn't bring up church at all, went silent when they did, texted a message and picture to their families.

Maybe they knew we are apostate and they avoided a spiritual message or my body language was enough they didn't want to do a spiritual message so they didn't. They didn't ask me what my calling is or ask me anything directly church related, so I'm assuming they have been in ward council where we have been discussed.

Nice kids, glad we could feed them, very uneventful.

I hate pushy missionaries. I lived in Mississippi for a while in a college town where missionaries were pushing pretty hard. They wanted baptisms quick. They pushed one guy to get baptized, even though he had some hangups on tithing. "You will get a testimony of it later" they said. I was at that appointment. I went back to ward council that week and tried to put the brakes on the whole thing, but got shot down as an unfaithful heathen. Those people got baptized, and never came again. Good for them, but man I hate pushy missionaries.

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:43 am Haven't had the missionaries actually over, they avoid my house like the plague, the dreaded apostasy disease! But we had a missionary sacrament yesterday, and they talked about the fact that we haven't had hardly any baptisms for the last few years, and they called it a "famine," and so they introduced a new program to get God to lift the famine, like the Israelites of old.

I declined to participate. When they want to know WHY there's a famine in the first place, they can ask me.

We seem to have been quarantined with a similar disease. Poor kids, they are always welcome at Casa Korihor. They could do whatever they want here and I'll never a word. Free Wifi, cool off in the pool, smoke a brisket - it's an unhappy missionary's wet dream.

Nearly all of our ward has left us behind now. Contact from them is minimal at best. I would be happy to host the missionaries for dinner, but I don't think local leadership would permit it now.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:33 am

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:25 am

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:40 am(Quick aside here: I learned last night that the recent big annual EQ family activity with picnic, pool, guns/a shooting range had only four elders show up, and I understand that most didn't bring their families. Hahahahahahahahaha. I hope this trend continues.)

My wife (as we both have many times before) pointed out that having guns at these events is alienating for the [laughably small] segment of Mormons that don't like guns, and perhaps something more oriented around games or music would be better? The missionaries agreed and said they'll plan stuff like that.

While I have no issue with guns when handled properly, guns and family activities do not mix. Anything involving firearms is an adults and responsible teenager (with supervision) only activity. I wouldn't want to take my young kids to an activity involving firearms. Too much risk of something going VERY wrong. Heck, even if it was adults only, I won't go if I knew that someone stupid was going to be there. A shooting activity needs to be sperate from any activity with kids and very heavily managed to maintain safety. So I agree that that is not well planed.

To be fair to this EQ, the shooting range was about a mile away from the pool/barbecue area. So it's not like there were guns going off directly next to the kids. But you are completely right, of course: guns and kids do not mix.

That actual makes it a bit worse from a parent's standpoint. If the range is a mile away, you are forced to choose between being with your family or going shooting. That means that one parent will have to stay with the kids and the other go to the activity. That not very practical on it's own and is even worse if the kids are younger. One parent has to wrangle the kiddos when the other leaves.

How Mormon. Try to bring the family together by making them all go to different activities.

I confess I may have been a similar a$$hole as a missionary. If I could go back in time, I would have been different. That is how we were trained to be a$$holes for the Lord.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:37 am The missionaries decided to stop by and share a spiritual moment so they pull out their iPads and play a 60 second mormon channel clip.

This is a trend that bothers me. I don't really like it when a Sunday School instructor plays a video clip. Of course, this isn't limited to Mormonism. I recently had a door-to-door sales guy for a security company play me a commercial on his portable device. Other than that, he gave a decent pitch, but when he told me how much the monthly fee would be for the company's services, I couldn't help but smile and think about how much cheaper it would be to actually be robbed. Sorry about the tangent.

I don't mind talking to missionaries about their personal stories and thoughts. In my experience, it's generally not hard to steer the conversation to that sort of thing. I like hearing how the missionary decided to serve a mission, for example. I imagine that most people would rather make some sort of personal connection, even if it's not that significant, than follow a script.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:37 am
Their robotic nuance is extremely tangible and downright creepy. Honestly, it's not even normal personality quarks because I've seen it in different sets of elders and sisters. They all mimic this weird way of conversation while testifying to the truth of every sub topic that comes out of their mouth. How did you like that video? I know that he truths it contained are true! Our Heavenly Father has expressed truth through his prophets today. It's like the stepford wives are using too much of Professsor Plankton's mind control shampoo.

I think it's because they have to compartmentalize their own personalities when they go out to do the proselyting thing. The job becomes easier when you reach that mental place and go on scripted autopilot to muscle through a lot of what missionaries do.

Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:40 am (The problem here, of course, isn't the type of activity planned. They've had plenty of games and music activities. It's that Mormon activities are boring, prescribed, lifeless events, with people belonging to the most consistently conservative religious group in the country, often held in ugly, smelly church buildings, where you will be faced with usually silent judgment but sometimes sharp rebuke for any deviations from Mormon cultural norms, and you can't even have beer to help ease everyone up, even though the MF'ing Word of Wisdom says right there that beer is allowed; CAN THESE PEOPLE NOT EVEN READ???! ...Sorry, tangent/rant).

I'm not a fan of every action in the church having a "gospel purpose." Our ward recently did a movie night, which is a great idea, but like all activities with a gospel purpose it had an invitation at the end that felt like an ulterior motive... probably because there was an ulterior motive. We don't watch Inside Out, Over the Hedge, Up, or some other family friendly movie - we watch movies about doing missionary work because they are perfect for that, "will you invite you family and friends..." invitation that's coming at the end. Seriously, who wants to show up for movie night when the movie is a church infomercial?

In their (mild) defence, I think most pushy missionaries are that way because they are being pushed themselves, whether by numbers-driven MPs, or family and social expectations. That said, It always really bothered me when missionaries would ask you to invite friends to activities under arguably false pretenses, i.e. telling them it's something for entertainment when it's really a missionary activity. They wouldn't have to deal with the ensuing loss of trust that your friends would have for you after being misled as it's not their problem. It's all about statistics in a numbers-driven environment.