NOM

I haven't gone to church in probably 6 months and DW usually only goes to RS because of her calling. Things had been pretty quiet for most of the six months with only a few comments from members to DW that they hadn't seen me in while. Well, that all stopped yesterday. DW said the Bishop asked if he could stop by. The HPGL stopped by unannounced (I hate unannounced visits). A member of the RS dropped off treats and another member contacted me to "see how I was doing." I can only guess that we must have made the "special projects" list in WC. One of the things that bothers me is that it had basically been radio silence for a long time now all of a sudden everyone is checking on us all on the same day. Makes me wonder about motivations. So the HPGL is coming back by tomorrow night. I am not sure how much to tell him. I don't have any problem talking to him but with DW (who still isn't sure where she stands WRT the church) present I don't really want to upset the detent we have established. This could get awkward. Any advice? How have others dealt with this? Thanks.

ghostman wrote:I haven't gone to church in probably 6 months and DW usually only goes to RS because of her calling. Things had been pretty quiet for most of the six months with only a few comments from members to DW that they hadn't seen me in while. Well, that all stopped yesterday. DW said the Bishop asked if he could stop by. The HPGL stopped by unannounced (I hate unannounced visits). A member of the RS dropped off treats and another member contacted me to "see how I was doing." I can only guess that we must have made the "special projects" list in WC. One of the things that bothers me is that it had basically been radio silence for a long time now all of a sudden everyone is checking on us all on the same day. Makes me wonder about motivations. So the HPGL is coming back by tomorrow night. I am not sure how much to tell him. I don't have any problem talking to him but with DW (who still isn't sure where she stands WRT the church) present I don't really want to upset the detent we have established. This could get awkward. Any advice? How have others dealt with this? Thanks.

Yeah...sounds like you're on their radar now. I remember when this happened with us too. People came out of the woodwork, but no one really wanted to ask or know why we had stopped attending. Sounds like maybe your HPGL wants to discuss it with you though possibly?

One rule we set that worked for us (and still does) is when someone just shows up unannounced, we never invite them inside. Once they're inside, it's a different ballgame and it's hard to ask them to leave (may sound funny...but it's true). We are always courteous and even friendly, but they stay on the porch if we have not invited them over. My husband and I both hate when people just show up without calling ahead. Also, more times than not, it's pretty late in the evening (8:00 or later) when they appear on your doorstep, which I think is pretty rude. So why are we obligated to invite them inside? Anyway...that has worked well for us.

However, if you have invited someone over and agreed to meet with them at a certain time, of course you will have them come inside. Just listen to them first, is my advice. Find out why they are there and let them ask any questions. We found that doing this went well for us. Most of the time, they don't want to get into a doctrinal or historical discussion and are just there to express their love and tell you they miss you (and check a box to report back to the Bishop). They'll ask if there's anything they can do for you usually and we've just said, "No, we're great and doing well...thanks for asking and we appreciate that".

If someone does ask why you're not attending (rare), don't give up more than you need or want to. Just say something like, "We are doing what is best for our family right now"....they can't really argue with that

It's just the perpetual "We need to work on reactiving the low hanging fruit". They'll love bomb ya for a little bit, hope that works and then disappear when you don't show up after 2 weeks of treats.

Just enjoy the snacks and carry on as usual.

Too bad the treats came during halloween instead of another time of the year that you're not already flooded with candy.

Good luck on the visits. It definitely sounds like you are on the list.

I have never done this, since I am still hiding in plain sight.

But from an "inside" the ward council perspective here are a couple of strategies that I have seen work for others. But first you should ask yourself, "what do you want to happen"?

Do you want to be out in the open?

Do you want to not have everyone know and just live and let live?

Do you want to burn it all to the ground?

Depending on what you want to happen will probably indicate what you should do. But assuming it is just a live and let live strategy, here are some thoughts.

1) Be the happy apostate. Just smile. Be positive. Don't overshare. Just tell them you need a break right now, without going in to any detail. Continue to smile and ask about their families until they wander off. They will be confused by your smiles because no one can be happy without the church. Plus if you don't give them a list of things, then there is nothing for them to return and report about.

2) Be the happy neighbor. Deny everything. Smile. Tell them you have no problems and life is great. Yeah I don't attend church right now. We will figure that all out in the future. Thanks for your help and support. Continue to smile and don't give any specifics. You are just one of the neighbors and want to continue your relationship as neighbors.

3) Be the direct post mo. Tell them up front that you no longer believe and will not be attending except to support your wife. But don't give any specifics. Just share that you love all the members and would love to have as many friends as possible for people who like to do (x - insert your favorite activities). Still smile. Don't give specifics, but let them know specifically you don't see yourself as an active member anymore. And without any specifics they will hopefully wander off. You are smiling and not a threat to their delicate faith.

Good luck. I would love to hear how it went and what you ultimately do.

All the best.

Some great advice already given. I despise unnanounced visits. This is why I sat in wal-mart's parking lot for 1.5 hrs a week ago because DW sprung it on me an hour before that we had ward visitors coming over. I told her I was planning on doing some shopping and she didn't even argue. I actually spent the whole time sitting in my truck at WM.

What hips said in his #1 is perfect. Be inquisitive about their families and put them on the spot. I think you will find them looking at their watches sooner than you think. Let them know that your family couldn't be better.

Why can't people in the Church just leave us alone? Geez, if I want to go to Church I'll go to Church. If I don't, I won't. If I believe in it, I believe in it, if I don't, I don't. What is any of that anyone else's business? If I wanted to talk to a Church leader, I'd set up an appointment - there is no need for them to seek me out. I don't need someone coming over once a month from the Church for home teaching - if I want a social connection at Church I will make one myself, I don't need the Elder's Quorum assigning me one. And I sure as hell don't want someone calling me up this month to set up an appointment for tithing settlement so they can pressure me into giving them thousands of dollars I can't afford to give them and ask financial questions that aren't anyone else's business.

Don't bug me. Just leave me alone! Is that too much to ask? Apparently in the LDS Church it is.

sadly, yes, you are the new special project. and the shepherds sent out to guide you safely home must return and report. accountability for the souls of our brothers and sisters is serious business. and at this point they're all trying to outfellowship each other... 'i took him cookies'... 'well, we brought a casserole'... 'i'm going to chloroform him and drag him to stake conference... i mean, i'm going to 'invite' him to go to this special meeting so that his soul will be filled with light of the gospel so that he will desire to return to the fold'...

i'm finding that one of the perks about moving into our new house is that though the old ward may ship my records to the new ward (thank you old tennessee bishop who's now my husband's boss here in ohio... grrrrrrr) if i'm on a brand new street that doesn't show up on gps the odds of them finding me in the very near future are slim... i'm basking in the freedom of being untraceable at the moment, though i know it will end at some point...

I think the reason it's been radio silence for a long time is because they try to give you the benefit of the doubt for a while. Maybe he's sick? Maybe he's overwhelmed at work? Maybe there's a family member sick? Maybe he's travelling for work a lot? etc.

Then they reach a point where they realize X member hasn't been to church in 6 months and they can't make excuses for you anymore they have to find out what's going on.

How you proceed really depends on if you want them to see you as an active member or if you are ready to disengage. What was your goal there? Are you trying to fade out or do you want them to still see you as active?

What we did was basically just give no information, but we were fading out. We just said things like: we are doing great, we are busy, thanks for asking, how are you, no we don't have any questions, no we don't want to meet, etc.

It took a year until BP finally came and just asked us, "What happened?" DH simply said, "Things change."

That was that.

If you want to stay under the radar make excuses. I have to work on Sundays now, etc.

If you just want to let the cat out of the bag and lay it out for them you could go that way, but that definitely wasn't the path I saw best for me so I am not going to try to sell that one to you. Plenty of folks do that, personally I think it seems like a huge waste of emotional energy for you and the other person, but some people find it cathartic or feel inauthentic to take the road I took.

It does sound like you are a project. I used to wonder if I was a project too. Then the bishop became my new HT, which removed all doubt.

First let me say thanks for all the great advice and comments. I am glad NOM is back!

The HPGL and his 1st asst stopped by last night. The visit was pretty relaxed, just chatted about work and the weather and such for about 15 minutes. He then offered me a HT list which I politely refused on the grounds that I was just not able to provide these good families the support they deserve right now. I didn't do my HT when I was still going to church regularly so I am not sure why he thought I was going to start now. I am sure it was an assignment from the BP just to see if I would accept. I noticed the HT companion he had assigned was an Uber-TBM. The HPGL accepted my refusal surprisingly well but immediately launched into the "what can we do to help? All we want to do is help you..." portion of the visit. I told him we were fine, just busy with life stuff and thanks for the offer. We wrapped it up at that point and he and his companion departed with a word of prayer. About 25 minutes total. It was pretty obviously a visit to see where we stand. It will be interesting to see who comes by to visit next. I am pretty sure I (we) are the new special project...

Thanks again for the advice.

ghostman wrote:First let me say thanks for all the great advice and comments. I am glad NOM is back!

The HPGL and his 1st asst stopped by last night. The visit was pretty relaxed, just chatted about work and the weather and such for about 15 minutes. He then offered me a HT list which I politely refused on the grounds that I was just not able to provide these good families the support they deserve right now. I didn't do my HT when I was still going to church regularly so I am not sure why he thought I was going to start now. I am sure it was an assignment from the BP just to see if I would accept. I noticed the HT companion he had assigned was an Uber-TBM. The HPGL accepted my refusal surprisingly well but immediately launched into the "what can we do to help? All we want to do is help you..." portion of the visit. I told him we were fine, just busy with life stuff and thanks for the offer. We wrapped it up at that point and he and his companion departed with a word of prayer. About 25 minutes total. It was pretty obviously a visit to see where we stand. It will be interesting to see who comes by to visit next. I am pretty sure I (we) are the new special project...

Thanks again for the advice.

Sounds like you handled things really well. I found that none of those who came over to visit us (on assignment from the Bishop) wanted to delve into why we were no longer attending or what our issues were. Like I said, they're just checking a box so they can report back that they visited you.

Let us know how it goes from here

The ward executive secretary called last night. The Bishop now wants to set up an appointment to come by and visit. We are not available this week so it may be next week before that can happen. I am not sure how much to tell him. I am thinking he will ask more direct questions than the HPGL did. I guess we'll see.

I would just tell him one or two of your issues that he can't possibly resolve. Then ask him for his advice and sit back and see what he comes up with.

When my Bishop asked, I told him I felt the church had enough money to invest billions of dollars in real estate therefore they didn't need mine. He replied that it kept me out of the temple. I replied by telling him I thought the temple was really weird so I was ok with being excluded. He laughed and agreed, then quickly replied that the more you go the more you understand.

When I did this, it placed the burden on him and I didn't have to spend my emotional energy trying to explain myself or my thoughts.

He's left me alone ever since.

Sometimes we give them more power and authority over our lives than they deserve.

hiding in plain sight wrote:1) Be the happy apostate. Just smile. Be positive. Don't overshare. Just tell them you need a break right now, without going in to any detail. Continue to smile and ask about their families until they wander off. They will be confused by your smiles because no one can be happy without the church. Plus if you don't give them a list of things, then there is nothing for them to return and report about.

2) Be the happy neighbor. Deny everything. Smile. Tell them you have no problems and life is great. Yeah I don't attend church right now. We will figure that all out in the future. Thanks for your help and support. Continue to smile and don't give any specifics. You are just one of the neighbors and want to continue your relationship as neighbors.

3) Be the direct post mo. Tell them up front that you no longer believe and will not be attending except to support your wife. But don't give any specifics. Just share that you love all the members and would love to have as many friends as possible for people who like to do (x - insert your favorite activities). Still smile. Don't give specifics, but let them know specifically you don't see yourself as an active member anymore. And without any specifics they will hopefully wander off. You are smiling and not a threat to their delicate faith.

This is really good advice if you are OK with this level of discourse. At the very least I would be up front in asking how the discussion is going in PEC, ward council, priesthood meeting, or Relief Society when your name comes up. Even home teachers tend to have some understanding about the activity level of their stewardship and expectations from leaders.

The BP couldn't make it this week so we have an appointment set for next week. BUT, DW just admitted that the BP cornered her at church last Sunday and asked why I hadn't been around. She let him in on some of the stuff we had discussed so the proverbial cat is at least somewhat out of the bag. Now I need to decide how to talk to the BP in what I expect to be a more focused conversation. I was going to go with the standard vague deflections but now I am not convinced I will be able to do that. The bad thing is the BP is a nice guy but doesn't have the strongest personality and I have been told in the past (by ex-HTs) that I can be "intimidating." I don't want to come across as an angry NOM (even though I am a little) but I also don't want him leaving here thinking everything is all rainbows and unicorns. I am more than happy to leave it alone if he will. My fear is he won't be able to do that. I guess we will see how it goes...

Happy Thanksgiving to all!

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, GM!

You're clearly on top of things and have an idea of what to expect. My only added thought (or question) would be whether it might be better to meet at the chapel rather than in your own home. The whole 'visit at home' thing comes from the sales force mentality of the church - if a salesperson can get inside your house, they have a bigger chance of closing a deal. When you let someone in your home, you've already said "yes" to at least one thing. It can also become difficult to close the conversation and get them to leave - you'd be asking them to exit, rather than taking your own exit.

Even though the church (the BP's office) is church turf, you are actually at an advantage - you can be firm and draw boundaries there more easily in your own home (at least that's how it was for me - I knew I could hold my own with them and I had long ago decided it was really bad form for the church to intrude into anyone's home). You can conclude the meeting whenever you want, and still be very polite.

Those are just my thoughts - you have your DW and other factors to consider. Best of luck in whatever meeting you end up having; I hope the message can get across in a friendly way that doesn't invite ongoing attempts to rescue you.

Thanks SG. Your thoughts on where to meet are appreciated. I am not sure I could talk DW into going to the church for the meeting. I think we are stuck doing it at home. That said, the one advantage I can see to meeting at home is that by not going to the chapel it shows that I am not at the beck and call of the church. If they want to talk to me it is on my terms. You are definitely right about the sales force mentality though. Luckily, and am pretty good at telling door to door sales callers and telemarketers to get lost. Politely, of course!

Well, the BP visit was pretty much a non-event. The BP himself couldn't make it so his counselors came. We chatted for about 30 minutes and then one said he needed to go. They said they missed me at church and asked me to let them know when I was ready to return. One said there was a real need for leaders and that they could sure use me. I made no promises and they didn't really pressure me like I thought they might. I had all my talking points prepared and was ready to let them know what my issues were. They didn't even ask... Not sure what will happen next.

The saga continues... The Stake ES calls tonight and wants to set up an appointment to see the SP. I ask him why and he says he doesn't know. I tell him if he can't tell me why then no thanks. He asks if the SP can me. Sure, I say. The SP calls and introduces himself with his full title. I tell him hello using his first name. That seems to throw him some. He asks if I would be available to meet with him. I ask him why. That seems to throw him a little more. He says he just wants to check on me and see how I am doing. Sure I say. This should be interesting. I meet with him in few days. It will be interesting to see if he really wants to know how I am or if this just another check in the block before they hopefully leave me alone.