NOM

The Church as Vessel

Ever ask yourself why folks stay so violently attached to the Church? Here’s an idea, think of the Church as a vessel and members as passengers (or barnacles, your call). The dictionary tells us a vessel is:

A large boat or ship.

A hollow container, especially one used to hold liquid, such as a bowl or cask.

I like “hollow boat” but here’s why I’d like to point you to an LDS “Fast and Testimony” meeting. Go to one, or at least cast your mind back to one and ask yourself what the testimonies are about. Spend a moment and think about what parents whisper into children’s ears for repetition. “I know the Church is true” should come to mind. Parents don’t teach children to say, “I know Jesus/God loves me” they have them repeat “I know the Church is true”. This is important because the Church is the vessel of salvation attach yourself to it, obey it, service it, don’t fall overboard and it will deliver you to salvation. This is one of the reasons Latter-day Saints are soooo vulnerable to multi-level marketing schemes; “all you have to do is follow the directions and work really, really hard and you’ll do great! OH and get your friends to join so they can reap the benefits too.”

Yikes.

I believe (and I think it’s provable) that the Church is a Works Church. Let’s face it, there’s things YOU have to do and YOU have to do pretty darn well if YOU want to be saved to the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom. Loving Christ is all well and good but if you’re not in the Vessel and part of the crew you’re…well…screwed. Another word came to mind there but I self-censored because you cannot find words to express how pained LDS folks are when someone disembarks. The boat, not Christ, is the saving agent; they’ve abandoned salvation—rejecting the vessel is rejecting eternal life. Church hierarchy has usurped Christ, replacing him as the gate you must pass through. Is it no wonder your relatives get so freaked out when you break the codes of conduct? Right now Latter-day Saints can be assured of their salvation if they have simply touched all the bases. Miss a base, miss salvation. Hey you lingered quite a while with that Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue…are you a porn fiend? Maybe we should put you in a dingy and tow you at a distance, keep the contamination contained.

The boat has rules and if you can’t keep the rules, absurd or not maybe you’re the bad example that has to go overboard. This is where shunning becomes important; it’s the act of insulating the rest of the passengers from infection. What IF Hyrum the First Assistant to the Bishop didn’t go on a mission and then hung around because he loves the Lord. That’s right, if he loved the Lord he’d go a mission but he didn’t and he’s happy and healthy. Maybe there’s a special deck we can send him to so the young’uns don’t get wacky ideas. OH and we can’t have perfectly happy homosexuals running around on deck because, well, there aren’t any happy ones are there? And there ain’t no happy drunks or coffee drinkers either but, if they hide it well we’ll put up with it. The vessel cleanses itself because it can. It has to or you’d have chaos and remember God is a God of order not social mayhem. The last thing the Captain and crew want to see is humanity in its fabulous variety and color. If you simply let people be people and accepted their shortcomings as part of the package you’d have passengers looking at each other and complaining “Why can’t I do that?” or “Wait, we’re both going to heaven? He just on aboard—I’ve been here swabbing decks my whole life!” That’s the other thing the LDS works system brings: Equality. We all have to touch the same bases so we’ve all got an equal shot and if you miss a base? That’s on you. Yeah, Mercy and Grace are for the lazy and sinful, those without the resolve to follow the rules.

Not very Christian if you ask me and that’s why the “Church as Salvation” fails you’re not moving towards goodness you’re simply moving the boat and its social agenda. Christ may be in the title but he’s not taking the tickets.

I don't care whether the Mormon church is Christian or not, and I'm puzzled why others do.

I have liked the religious symbolism of a boat ever since I heard it used in Buddhism. Some Mormons are big boaters. Some are small boaters. Together they form an armada lead by the Dreadnought of Mormon Authorities.

BTW, do you think some NOMs might be submariners? Will Moksha's Ship of Fools capsize on his voyage to the Sea of Tranquility?

LSOF wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:25 am I don't care whether the Mormon church is Christian or not, and I'm puzzled why others do.

The question is does the church lead you to Christ or is it the destination of itself?

I believe (and I think it’s provable) that the Church is a Works Church

.

Even as an atheist this criticism bothers me. I believe (and think it's provable) that Jesus was a Works Messiah. It seems it was Paul (who never met Jesus but in the same way Joseph claimed to meet him) who seems to have pushed the Faith salvation narrative that so many claim as 'real' Christianity today.

The fact that Jesus is not available in flesh and blood today means we have to construct some sort of vessel to represent him. Some claim modern men and their authority, some claim a collection of old stories and some claim the voices in their head. Who's can say which vessel really works? I hold enormous doubts about all of them.

It seems that this is yet another post in which the word "Christian" is a synonym for "good". As an atheist, I really hate when people use "Christian" as a synonym for "good". It has the effect of implying that non-Christians and non-Christian things cannot be good.

I think we all can agree that the Mormon church is not good. It believes in Jesus as at least part of God, so it is Christian.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:03 pm I have liked the religious symbolism of a boat ever since I heard it used in Buddhism. Some Mormons are big boaters. Some are small boaters. Together they form an armada lead by the Dreadnought of Mormon Authorities.

BTW, do you think some NOMs might be submariners? Will Moksha's Ship of Fools capsize on his voyage to the Sea of Tranquility?

Taoism maintains that it is in the empty space where the items value may be found. A pitcher is useful because of its empty space. A house is useful because of the empty space confined within the walls. Same goes for boats.

Don't know how that relates, but that's what I thought of when I was reading about vessels. Moksha brought in Buddhism, so I'm just joining the eastern philosophy brigade.

Give me time (no pun intended). It'll be an interesting thought exercise to see if I can draw a connection. If not, it's really nice to have a totally different paradigm. It makes church much more entertaining.

I picture the LDS ship of state as this odd steam punk/Capt Nemo thing.

Brent wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:24 pm I picture the LDS ship of state as this odd steam punk/Capt Nemo thing.

That would be cool!

As far as the empty vessel/eastern philosophy thing, I got nuthin'


But, the empty factor did bring something to mind and this is something we could use, if one felt bold enough.

There's an old Everybody Loves Raymond episode where Ray's daughter wants to know why we're all here. Ray's response was that it was too crowded in Heaven. Perhaps, we're jumping ship because it's too crowded. Our going overboard so that there is room enough and supplies enough for our loved ones remaining on board could be seen as a beautiful sacrifice.

Brent wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:24 pm I picture the LDS ship of state as this odd steam punk/Capt Nemo thing.

I'm having strong Ricky Bobby around the dinner table flashbacks right now (which is most welcome!! -I picture Jesus in a tuxedo t-shirt etc etc )

But it's causing me to ponder: Truman G Madsen once called the LDS theology a religion for the space age. As such I picture the good ship LDS as a space ship, probably something like the Millennium falcon or Serenity as the captains view their ships as state-of-art crafts while everyone else views them as a piece of junk. I'm afraid I'm not enough of a nerd to really nail this metaphor.

LaMachina wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:16 pm

Brent wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:24 pm I picture the LDS ship of state as this odd steam punk/Capt Nemo thing.

I'm having strong Ricky Bobby around the dinner table flashbacks right now (which is most welcome!! -I picture Jesus in a tuxedo t-shirt etc etc )

But it's causing me to ponder: Truman G Madsen once called the LDS theology a religion for the space age. As such I picture the good ship LDS as a space ship, probably something like the Millennium falcon or Serenity as the captains view their ships as state-of-art crafts while everyone else views them as a piece of junk. I'm afraid I'm not enough of a nerd to really nail this metaphor.

That's okay. It's a really cool metaphor.