NOM

I am in the US now, instead of Europe where I live, and I have noticed that the LDS environment here is... different.
The Church here seems to be struggling quite hard with the cognitive dissonance of the whole LGBT fiasco. It gets brought up all. the. time. and it leads to awkward situations where the teacher of the day is trying in front of the live audience to align his/her moral views with the top-down message. People are trying to force themselves into this ideological mold that does not work for them, and the focus of the lessons seems to be "let's find (make up?) reasons why Elder X is right when he says Y". The larger ward size may also contribute to the stifling climate, making it so there are enough die-hard TBMs to run the whole thing without anyone moderate chiming in.
It may be just my personal sensitivity to the LGBT issue, but I feel like the Church has a higher toxicity level here, and I am starting to better understand where a lot of your (most of you fellow NOMs') frustration is coming from.

I live in the most Mormon place on earth, Utah County. People here are very comfortable with disparaging members in the LGBTA community. My son was recently forced out of the closet, somewhat. I chose to stand by him. I got a few brave souls in my ward liking my post. One brave, fierce mother thanked me eloquently and the rest of my support from my ward members was in person. It was a smattering.

The large bulk of the ward respects me, but now keeps their distance.

ulmite wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:38 pm The larger ward size may also contribute to the stifling climate, making it so there are enough die-hard TBMs to run the whole thing without anyone moderate chiming in.
It may be just my personal sensitivity to the LGBT issue, but I feel like the Church has a higher toxicity level here, and I am starting to better understand where a lot of your (most of you fellow NOMs') frustration is coming from.

I think it depends on a host of factors, some here that you mention, and can also be determined by average age, ethnic composition, region, etc. etc. But more importantly, it's the messages coming from the top brass - it's the age of doubting your doubts, following the prophets, and general conformity, so it's no wonder anybody saying different is not welcome.

We had a HP lesson on obedience and it turned into an old white man rant against the people of the world. One guy actually said that most of the trouble in the world was due to the fact that men don't treat women properly, and so he taught his sons to always open doors for women, and that was the most important thing he could teach them. Huh? I was just waiting for someone to say, "yep, them women, homosexhuls and "darkies" just don't know their place no more!" It was horrible, so I just played on my phone until it was time to go. Alternate messages are just not welcome anymore. My daughter had a lesson on women and the priesthood in YW, and came home similarly frustrated - we bemoaned our cowardice in not smashing the patriarchy yesterday, but consoled ourselves in the fact that our older ward is just out of touch, and so we just came home and ate cake. Father's Day was wonderful once I left church.

ulmite wrote: ↑Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:38 pm I am in the US now, instead of Europe where I live, and I have noticed that the LDS environment here is... different.
The Church here seems to be struggling quite hard with the cognitive dissonance of the whole LGBT fiasco. It gets brought up all. the. time. and it leads to awkward situations where the teacher of the day is trying in front of the live audience to align his/her moral views with the top-down message. People are trying to force themselves into this ideological mold that does not work for them, and the focus of the lessons seems to be "let's find (make up?) reasons why Elder X is right when he says Y". The larger ward size may also contribute to the stifling climate, making it so there are enough die-hard TBMs to run the whole thing without anyone moderate chiming in.
It may be just my personal sensitivity to the LGBT issue, but I feel like the Church has a higher toxicity level here, and I am starting to better understand where a lot of your (most of you fellow NOMs') frustration is coming from.

Right after my shelf fell I moved from the Midwest where there were few Mormons and only 2 wards in my very large city to right smack dab into the Mother Lode of Mormonland.... Provo, UT. It was smothering and quite the cultural shock. I understand a bit what you are saying. I am curious to know how the LBTQ issue was handled where you lived in Europe. In my area in the Midwest there was little conversation about it. My kids had LGBTQ friends Mormon and NonMormon. But this was before the November hate policy. Could it be this was the tipping point and things have drastically changed since I last attended?

I'm on the East Coast right now. In Europe nobody talks about it. Melingkie (correct spelling?) has reported that in the Netherlands, people mostly say "yeah, whatever" and ignore the November policy. In my big city ward, the mood seemed to be shock, and my father, the bishop in another ward, told the SP he would not enforce the hate policy. SP totally let it slide, maybe agreed for all I know.

In my part of the Mor-Cor, you hear an anti-LGBT comment in every block, if not more often. A comment put as nice as you can say, like, "Well we know that the Lord has set his standards for marriage." Etc.